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Post by wollastoni on May 27, 2011 2:53:02 GMT -8
Is it Gonggashan ?
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Post by timoinsects on May 27, 2011 18:26:47 GMT -8
Wollastoni,Correct! it is GongGa Shan(Mountion). W.SiChuan prov. (GanZi autonomous prefecture) ,there lives some tibitens,but much different with tibitens in Tibet,life style,languages etc. they were called KangBa Zangzu that have been influenced by Hanzu(majourty chinese) from history.( Zang means tibiten),some of them especially youngth speak chinese insetad of tibeten language. go forward all the way to west across GanZi is east Tibet. so the insects specimens are of many connections and interesting. how do you know that? i guess maybe from collecting data of butterflies? GongGa Shan is a little big mountion area. should find correct place then could get relatively good quantity of Bhutanitis. two Bhutanitis sp. were found there, B.mansfieldi & B.thaidina, B.mansfieldi occur each year earilier than B.thaidina,around the ending time of B.mansfieldi is starting time of B.thaidina.
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Post by timoinsects on May 27, 2011 18:32:25 GMT -8
Ray,i will probably go to West YunNan (GaoLiGong shan) where bondaried with north east Myanmar on around 30th. this month with my partener. this place is far from me. a bit rush time. i need to get a good quality butterfly net,some beetles : cetonidae cerambycidae rutelidae etc. were caught by net only.
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Post by lucanidae25 on May 28, 2011 1:10:52 GMT -8
Good luck with your collecting in West Yunnan but I think it's a bit too early for Gaoligong shan at the end of this month. You won't find any Lucanidae with out a light trip. You will get so much more with a light trip.
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Post by wollastoni on May 28, 2011 11:33:04 GMT -8
"how do you know that? i guess maybe from collecting data of butterflies?" < I have been there one time. Gongga Shan is famous for its Bhutanitis. I thought you may also know this place was good.
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Post by lepidofrance on May 30, 2011 4:20:08 GMT -8
Last summer, I failed to find a Bhutanitis spot around Lijiang (Western Yunnan) . Several people told me that the best places are inside the Gongga Shan (Sichuan) and Gaoligong Shan (Yunnan) on the the border with Myanmar. I saw these last mountains from far but I had no time to go there . Thank you for illustrating that the Gongga Shan is truly the right place . Here are some pictures from yunnanese leps. The lidderdalii picture is from the Naxi Museum in Lijiang. www.lepido-france.fr/2010/09/photos-de-lepidopteres-du-yunnan/Attachments:
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Post by lepidofrance on May 31, 2011 1:00:35 GMT -8
Ni hao ! This Bhutanitis thaidina comes from Erlangshan area (between Huailogou and Mozigou, not far, I presume, from the tunnel on the road to Ya'an). I bought (cheap price) it at the Juvisy International Insects Fair in September 2010 but, sorry, I don't remember who was the seller. May be, it has been collected by one of the local collectors you are speaking about ! As far I know, Erlang Shan is not far from your collecting place ? Do you know if these local collectors work for Li Jingke ? Attachments:
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Post by lepidofrance on May 31, 2011 1:08:47 GMT -8
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Post by timoinsects on May 31, 2011 1:51:40 GMT -8
about the traffic, ErLangShan. is the way we must pass,after the ErLangShan tunnel.and drive for about 2? hour about is MoXi town(Hailuogou etc.) that's the place. sure thouse places are not far each other so Bhutanitis was collected there is available. from SiChuan to Tibet by road. ErLangShan is a station that must pass by. we called this Chuan-Zang line .(sichuan to tibet).
local collectors, well,perhaps not many as you imagined,there used to be a few families do this during summer. but they alomost don't recent years. the hunters is a father and his son,we live in their home. my partener went there each summer for butterflies. it's my first time to there. they don't provide to LiJingKe,they don't know him at all. they sell to my partener ,then he sell to Li. actually i am not his business partener,just we went there together,i was not for business porpose. and he wants only or mainly butterflies. beetles are uneasy to get. butterflies are obvious when flying. so the lucanidae and other good insects would be difficult.
Calinaga buddha,i caught only this one,not difficult. don't know if it is a correct name but looks very similar. maybe it is. i am not familiar on butterflies.
they hunters as i know,only collected thouse "good commercial sp.",for other unknewn sp. they don't collect or just have them on sale as "mixed", i believe form the mixed butterflies there would be a few good sp.
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Post by wollastoni on May 31, 2011 3:07:45 GMT -8
Is Xing Cheng your friend ? If so, say hello from Olivier to him.
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 31, 2011 7:16:41 GMT -8
Last summer, I failed to find a Bhutanitis spot around Lijiang (Western Yunnan) . Several people told me that the best places are inside the Gongga Shan (Sichuan) and Gaoligong Shan (Yunnan) on the the border with Myanmar. I saw these last mountains from far but I had no time to go there . Jean-Marc, Bhutanitis lidderdalii flies at the end of August and early September, so maybe you were in Lijiang too early. If you were there in July or early/mid August it is too late for B. thaidina anyway. Both species are found in the area of Yuelongshan, north of Lijiang town. B. lidderdalii flies across the pass between Burma and Yunnan at Hpimaw near Gaoligongshan, and is probably found at other localities in that area. Adam.
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Post by lepidofrance on May 31, 2011 8:28:20 GMT -8
Dear Adam, Thank you for these informations ! I stayed North of Lijiang (Baisha village, Yulong "Jade Water Village") more than a week around August 20th. These locations are at 2500 m asl elevation and I climbed up to 3200 m asl. I did not find many bamboos where, if I remember rightly what once you wrote me, it's possible to watch lidderdalii. Very few bamboos forests ! Mainly coniferous. Looking for butterflies is nowadays not so easy in the large valley North to Lijiang and East of the Yulonxueshan since the Chinese authorities made there a huge (very turistical : hundreds of thousends visitors) park : sceneries and biotops are magnificient but it's totally forbidden to walk there ; you must cross the area, from a turistical point to an other, in a bus. No question to handle a butterfly net !! Since walking is forbidden ! With a such situation, turistical spots are overcrowded (it's a shame !) and, between these points, that's desert ! On one side, this is good for nature conservation. On the other hand, it's extremely frustrating to see (from the bus) beautiful landscapes and biotopes promising that it is totally forbidden to walk! The attached photo shows the great valley in eastern Yulongxueshan (looking south-east). In the middle was the airport from which, during the Second World War, American planes took off to bomb the Japanese forces around Guilin. What is the correct elevation for lidderdalii ? Is the butterfly flying at 3000 m asl ? I presume it's mainly around 2500 or 2600 ? The only bamboo groves (except those located in the village gardens) which I recall were at 3100 m altitude. My best regards, JM Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 31, 2011 10:25:01 GMT -8
Jean-Marc,
It wasn't me who told you to look in bamboo forest for lidderdalii.
I think August 20th is too early for lidderdalii, probably you needed to be there at least a week later, maybe a few days more.
As for altitude, I think lidderdalii generally flies much lower, about 1500m up to 2000m. That is the altitude range around Hpimaw (Bimaw) pass on the Burma border. It is possible that it flies at higher elevation around Lijiang, but I do not know.
Adam.
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Post by lepidofrance on May 31, 2011 17:59:41 GMT -8
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Post by timoinsects on May 31, 2011 20:04:29 GMT -8
hi all. Xing Cheng is not my friend,i don't know this name,i know there's man in Shandong prov. that sell chinese butterflies on ebay. i don't know him,but my partener sold to him butterflies. don't know if it's him. Adam,you understand Yunnan very well.for some aspects, more than i do. there're many places for insects hunting in Yunnan. i will soon go to Baimaxueshan (white horse snow Mt. in N.W.Lijiang) in n.w.Yunnan with my partener in June. and then south to Gaoligong myself. this summer would be great for me.about collecting time of Bhutanitis,i wrote the info. accroding my limited experiences,you're right,other time is ok for Bhutanitis too. just i haven't came across. Jean,yes that nowadys many many toursim places in China were developed.and portected,very commercial nowadys.national foresty park for example that forbidden to collect,so it would be much better to collect in the neiboured places around where not for tourism and few people go. the tourists do not interest insects. but perhaps not so forbideen always,it depends. if chinese hobbiests or even the native dealers go, if meet the foresty policemen etc. just tell them the reason why go and what will do,it would be better give them something maybe just simplly give a cigarette,or pay(to bribe) a few $$(secretlly) .it depends.if the native villigers be as foresty policemen(patrol),things would be much easier. or get a certificate from chinese institudes/university. it's a shame,eheheh,i agree. some original things were broken down. and no recoverable! villigers know more about $$ and in a certian saying they lost some of their original way of life. they maybe happy for this,as they can have more money from the tourism development. the altidude of my Bhutanitis trip. is about 1900(seldom occur) to 2300meters(we did not went up higher). .... i'm glad Jean uplodated some my picture to the site. hope to see more other colleages share your experiences in as detailed way here. this helps more people to know the original insects habitats and their life for that we mostly received only insects specimens themself ,little knewn of their homeland.
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