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Post by bobw on Jun 29, 2011 15:21:52 GMT -8
It looks like a male to me. Females don't have the purple sheen and the wing-shape looks like a male, females have much broader wings.
Bob
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Post by saturniidave on Jun 29, 2011 16:21:43 GMT -8
I agree with Bob, it is a male.
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Post by thanos on Jun 29, 2011 16:40:16 GMT -8
This is DEFINITELY a male. Females of ALL Apatura definitely have NO purple sheen from ANY angle.The females of A.iris are brown(dark or light),usualy much larger than the males,with wider white bands on hindwings(except if they are of the semi-iole form ) and their wings are more rounded in contrast to the sharp male's wings. This male A.iris has some flight wear and this is the reason that the purple is not so strong,but I have collected very freshly emerged males with naturally less strong blue-purple than others. Also the forewing apices of this male are cut,so that the wing seems less pointed. Btw 1, A.iris hadn't emerged yet here,at the forest where I was collecting the L.populi last weekend.I didn't see even a male.There,in early to mid july A.iris is very common - I have seen hundreds of males,but only very few females(I have only 2 from there in my collection). Btw 2,about my L.populi,one of my females just laid 4 green eggs (only).I will cut some leaves of Populus tremula tomorrow and will give a try to breeding. Thanos
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 29, 2011 23:36:43 GMT -8
I was not certain about the gender. I presumed that it was a female because : - this sample is different from the others I collected by the larger size and the broader white bands. - in the Tolman & Lewington's book ( Butterflies of Europe), the pictured female (plate 37) shows purple marks at the anal angle (HW). Many thanks !
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Post by bobw on Jun 30, 2011 1:08:25 GMT -8
Thanos
Clearly it would be impossible for collectors to damage populations of a bug such as L. populi as most females rarely venture down from the treetops. I have experience of the species in NE France where it can be common and I think the only things that could really affect populations are climate change or cutting down all the aspens.
I was just making the point that it seems a shame to sacrifice any female butterfly that's full of eggs when it can be so much more rewarding to rear it, both in terms of experience and the potential number of specimens.
Bob
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Post by thanos on Jun 30, 2011 4:49:58 GMT -8
'the only things that could really affect populations are climate change or cutting down all the aspens' -Right ! Btw,recently was written the red book of the threatened invertebrates of Greece,where some ridiculous people(''entomologists'') write that L.populi 'is much threatened by collection'...(!),leaving out of the list really vulnerable species like Colias balcanica(already disappeared from maybe its former best locality here -now remained only 2-3 small localities:it is vulnerable as it flies in meadows and in low numbers and over-collecting here can damage a population,unlike species like L.populi or A.iris). One of the persons who wrote this for L.populi(and other species) in the red book,is unexperienced with them,never has seen a L.populi flying...The other person,has collected the most specimens of L.populi in Greece(this is really ridiculous..!).But it seems that these persons got some money to write there some bull$$@its,one of them being very unexperienced with the species in the field and writing totally not scientific and wrong things(like that L.populi is endangered from collectors) -but having the right contacts so to work as an 'entomologist' in the university here. And the other person has collected really too many males L.populi(has only one female,I think cause of lack of full knowledge on the species) and this person wrote in the red book that L.populi is threatened by collection (what a hypocricy !) and that the species must be protected by law here.Anyway..just to let you know some things.. About the rearing,Bob,I agree with what you said about the further experience you get on the biology of the species and the number of specimens(and their quality,although the size is smaller usualy than the wild ones),but how many species one does have the time to breed..?
Thanos
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Post by thanos on Jun 30, 2011 5:01:30 GMT -8
Jean-Marc, I'm using Tolman's book for many years and I checked again the illustrated female A.iris there,but I can't see any purple marks/sheen on her Thanos
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 30, 2011 7:39:07 GMT -8
1. Sorry, I did a mistake translating "purple sheen" : I understood "red marks" and not "blue cast". For me "purple" = red. I apolozige ! 2. Regarding the Red list, it was the same silly situation for France : most of the authors were some kind of ecologists knowing very few about insects and butterflies. The main and well known example is Papilio hospiton which was registered as very threatened and is actually, as everybody knows, very common in his locations. Other examples : Z. rumina and Z. polyxena. Some years ago, I used each year to rent a house in South of France where it was possible to meet (in April) dozens of polyxena within less than an hour. Since some monthes, things are going in a better way : some entomologists (for example, our Association Chairman) are now involved in the Red list Commission and now the work and publications are more in line with reality. 3. The morning was very cloudy and temperature around 20 C. I saw many butterflies but only one Apatura ilia standing high in a tree. All the A. ilia I saw these last days were already damaged. Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Jun 30, 2011 13:42:42 GMT -8
'some entomologists (for example, our Association Chairman) are now involved in the Red list Commission and now the work and publications are more in line with reality.'
-Nice!
This A.ilia looks to be a female.
Thanos
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 30, 2011 14:51:03 GMT -8
Kali spera ! Yes, I presume this is a female ; the label was wrong since I made a too quick copy/paste from a former photo ! This new picture shows that the butterfly was attracted by a piece of cheese. Unfortunately, sun moments were to short to let the butterfly going down. As soon a cloud came, as soon the ilia went to hide in a remote tree. Attachments:
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 30, 2011 14:56:10 GMT -8
2nd picture of the same A. ilia : very damaged ! Soon, I'll go to Italia : may be I'll meet ilia clytie ? End of the month, I'll move to Borneo. New entomological adventures ... So, no more picture from french Apatura (till 2012 !). Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Jul 6, 2011 18:35:44 GMT -8
Just noticed that the larvae of L.populi hatced all(4) from the few eggs I had got from one female. Unfortunately,almost all(3) of them are dead ,as I had them inside a small envelop.I should had cut leaves of Populus tremula earlier and put them there,driping also few water on them.Anyway,one larva is alive and I put it on a piece of wet toilet paper inside a petri dish.Tomorrow I will cut some P.tremula leaves and put it on them.This is not breeding (of only 1 specimen ) and difficult to survive,but I'll give a try. Thanos
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Post by nomihoudai on Jul 7, 2011 0:27:22 GMT -8
If you leave L1 for a few hours without food no wonder they die, they need to eat a lot! The smaller the animal the more food, when I had small fish from Lebistes reticulata I needed to feed them every few hours or they would starve due to their tiny stomach.
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Post by thanos on Jul 7, 2011 1:21:56 GMT -8
Yes,you are right,I just didn't care about it in time . In a few time I will have some P.tremula leaves,the larva is still alive but is not moving so much..I think will die soon.Anyway,a lesson so to be more careful next time I will get eggs . Thanos
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