Fernando
Full Member
Learning...
Posts: 187
|
Post by Fernando on Aug 10, 2011 10:48:57 GMT -8
Well, I'm currently breeding many species from Mexico (Syssphinx, Citheronia, Rothschildia, etc.). Since I live in the southern hemisphere, temperatures inside my house are around 12 ºC, then I put all the larvae inside a closed cardboard box and put a 25 W light bulb inside, so the temperature inside the box is around 22 ºC.
My question is: how (if any) necessary is the sunlight for the larvae? I'm asking this because I need to keep the box closed in order to keep the temperature high.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
|
|
|
what
Junior Member
Posts: 22
|
Post by what on Aug 10, 2011 11:26:24 GMT -8
Photoperiod may make a difference with some species, but I do not believe sunlight itself has any effect on the caterpillars.
I would let others with more experience respond before taking that to heart, but I do all of my rearing indoors and I have not had any problems thus far.
|
|
|
Post by africaone on Aug 10, 2011 12:52:44 GMT -8
I bred a saturniid larva (Orthogoniptilum mucronatum) that made the diffeence between day and night ! During the day it stayed on the treetrunk and come to feed on the foliage during the night. (ps : I suspect it was one of the reason that nobody collected it before as the caterpilar is very cryptic on the tree trunk). One can suppose that it is a kind of dependance of the light. Thierry
|
|
Fernando
Full Member
Learning...
Posts: 187
|
Post by Fernando on Aug 10, 2011 18:37:29 GMT -8
Thanks for your replies.
My main concern is whether they do need light coming from the sun, not just a light/darkness cycle which I can simulate turning the light bulb on and off.
|
|
|
Post by africaone on Aug 11, 2011 0:49:53 GMT -8
If you speak specifically about sunlight rays, in my experience it is not necssary ! I bred many inside black plactic bag (40-60 l) during their complete cycle (or nearly so) with success ! this concern Saturniid, Sphingid, papilioid, Cymothoe, Euphaedra, etc.... Thierry
|
|
Fernando
Full Member
Learning...
Posts: 187
|
Post by Fernando on Aug 11, 2011 5:34:10 GMT -8
Excellent, that was what I needed to know Thank you very much.
|
|
|
|
Post by enyas24 on Aug 14, 2011 13:00:40 GMT -8
In my experience also with indoor (dark conditions) and natural conditions i didn't notice major differences on the saturniids but , and this is only speaking of experience, the pigmentation of some species ,the average weight and the growing speed were influenced. Generally i believe that as with most of the organisms , specific metabolic procedures are strongly related to sun radiation. It's not only the photoperiod that you have to worry about. I almost always get optimum results with more "natural" conditions. Apparently certain types of diseases are easier established in boxes due to compromised immune systems . By the way watch out humidity as well, can be an enemy .. An example of a caterpillar variation which i suspect that is due to reduced sunlight is this a.luna, which i like to call "the strawberry edition" imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/strawberryy.jpg/
|
|
Fernando
Full Member
Learning...
Posts: 187
|
Post by Fernando on Aug 14, 2011 18:56:05 GMT -8
Nice luna larva! And very useful information, thanks a lot.
Sadly, I just can't take the poor creatures out of the box yet, as temperatures are still too low.
|
|
|
Post by africaone on Aug 14, 2011 23:08:22 GMT -8
in many cases, more slowly the larva grows more big it will be and low temperature slows the growth ! ... of course no artic temp !!!
|
|
Fernando
Full Member
Learning...
Posts: 187
|
Post by Fernando on Aug 17, 2011 6:39:40 GMT -8
in many cases, more slowly the larva grows more big it will be and low temperature slows the growth ! ... of course no artic temp !!! That explains why my E. calletas grew so big when I reared them during our autumn!
|
|
|
Post by enyas24 on Aug 18, 2011 9:16:08 GMT -8
true, growing slower creates sometimes bigger larvae. On the other hand thought you can get many losses ,especially with tropical species. Autumn / winter rearings on evergreen trees/shrubs usually don;t give that great results since even if the plants keep their leaves their chemical composition changes (a form of diapause too) so the nutritional complex ,important for the larvae, is being altered. Good bloodlines and livestock always give the best of the results ,rule of thumb!
|
|
|
Post by africaone on Aug 18, 2011 23:26:37 GMT -8
it also true for Papilionidae, Limenitine and Sphingidae. By breeding with this technic, I obtained nice females of Papilio hesperus and Graphium biokensis, some Cymothoe and some sphingidae (espacially some Temnora, including an undescribed species ... all ab ovo ! Thierry
|
|
|
Post by starlightcriminal on Aug 19, 2011 5:43:42 GMT -8
I haven't noticed a difference between UV exposed and indoor reared Saturniids either.
It's interesting that you note the slowed growth from cooler temperatures results in larger imagos, I just tested that hypothesis this year for a few species and it did indeed prove correct, very pronounced in some cases. Here in Florida it's very easy to get extra high temperatures but cool is only available in an air-controlled room. So I reared some in the moth house outside and some indoors. One species in particular went from adult eclosure all the way through pupae again in just under a month when reared outdoors but returned tiny adults. The indoor counterparts took twice that long and were of average to large size. There is about 15-20 degrees (F) difference in temperature between indoor and outdoor on average though they do become closer overnight of course.
For me, the relative term "cooler" is 75-78 degrees while "warmer" is 90-95 average, ranging from 75-100 over a 24 hour period on average. Cooler temps were indoors so the temperature would have been constant. There are other variables that could be controlled better (for example humidity outdoors is 85%+ pretty much all the time, supplementing to that degree indoors is challenging if you still want to maintain good circulation) but it was a fairly promising pilot experiment that begs for further investigation.
I'd love to know if anyone else has tried anything like this and what they observed.
|
|
Fernando
Full Member
Learning...
Posts: 187
|
Post by Fernando on Aug 19, 2011 7:02:19 GMT -8
Very interesting replies everyone. I'd love to know if anyone else has tried anything like this and what they observed. I've breeded E. calleta 3 times so far, and, as I mentioned earlier, the breeding that occurred during our autumn the larvae grew exceptionally big. The imagos haven't hatched yet, but I can tell by the cocoons that they will be huge. Here's a video I recorded of those larvae (they're not fully grown though)
|
|
|
Post by starlightcriminal on Aug 19, 2011 9:54:58 GMT -8
Fernando, when you say "cooler" how cold is that? I shiver at 60, I'm a tropical organism for sure. Thanks for the video. I've haven't worked with calleta yet but I have a few friends that have. Are they relatively hardy?
|
|