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Post by exoticimports on Sept 8, 2011 8:59:57 GMT -8
Hi gang,
Anybody know the rules on "importing" from US Territories (Guam, Federated States of Micronesia, American Samoa, USVI)?
Thanks!
Chuck
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 9, 2011 6:44:57 GMT -8
I'd like this information too. How about something really close like the USVI or Puerto Rico?
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 16, 2011 7:46:07 GMT -8
I looked and looked at 50 CFR 14, etc and all I could find were references to "United States" which is typically inclusive of territories. I found no specific mentions of territories.
So I spoke to USFWS, Valley Stream NY, the lady's initials are CM. She said that it is NOT an import if coming from a territory...I heard her ask somebody else to confirm, and they confirmed, it is not an import.
So apparently bringing bugs back from Puerto Rico, USVI, Guam, Northern Marianas, and American Samoa is NOT an import.
This is not legal advice, just passing on what I was told by USFWS.
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 18, 2011 7:15:09 GMT -8
Wow, that would be great! Unfortunately I have heard varied advice from USFW, depending on who you get on the phone. I wish they would put it in writing for us. It's always "So-and-so from USFW said I could when I called" while the ranger looks at you funny. Hmmm... if anyone can find anywhere this is written I would really appreciate having a copy for my records so I can plan a trip to guam and have it printed on my field t-shirts.  |
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Post by mygala on Nov 18, 2011 0:16:27 GMT -8
Hmmm... if anyone can find anywhere this is written I would really appreciate having a copy for my records so I can plan a trip to guam and have it printed on my field t-shirts. " State means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, American Samoa, the Virgin Islands, and Guam." " United States means the several States of the United States of America, District of Columbia, Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Baker Island, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Atoll, Navassa Island, Palmyra Atoll, and Wake Atoll, and any other territory or possession under the jurisdiction of the United States." |
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Post by wingedwishes on Nov 19, 2011 8:46:58 GMT -8
It appears that the definition will be in the eyes of the inspector. I suspect that it would ultimately not be allowed as it is easier to say no than yes. If official permission is granted, what about military bases or consulates? They are technically US land and fall under US law.
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Post by mygala on Nov 21, 2011 1:25:05 GMT -8
It appears that the definition will be in the eyes of the inspector. I suspect that it would ultimately not be allowed as it is easier to say no than yes. If official permission is granted, what about military bases or consulates? They are technically US land and fall under US law. This is not something left up to the discretion of the Wildlife Inspector. It's explicitly stated in the CFR's, there is no "wiggle room" on this. However, under some circumstances CBP will consider shipments coming from US protectorates to be imports. This can add an element of confusion to some situations. But from USFWS' point of view, ... if you are bringing legal wildlife in from Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI, etc, ...no Form 3-177 Declaration is required. |
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Post by admin on Nov 21, 2011 15:15:48 GMT -8
mygala: What is that in your avatar? I can't figure it out.
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Post by nomihoudai on Nov 21, 2011 15:25:58 GMT -8
It's a cockatoo  |
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Post by wingedwishes on Nov 22, 2011 5:02:07 GMT -8
It should not be up to the inspector but there are dozens of horror stories where an inspector uses his or her own discretion. I uderstand that they are over burdened but there are "John Wayne" types in most systems. For example - you get asked if you have any animals or their parts as you enter te country. You answer no but the leather belt you bought outside of the USA is an animal part. Is that inspector going to hassle you? Most likely not. But they did use their discretion. The law and the application of the law when combined require discretion.
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Post by mygala on Nov 28, 2011 20:24:35 GMT -8
Clark, yes, it's a cockatoo (C. moluccensis).
Good eye Claude!
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Post by mygala on Nov 28, 2011 23:20:43 GMT -8
It should not be up to the inspector but there are dozens of horror stories where an inspector uses his or her own discretion. I uderstand that they are over burdened but there are "John Wayne" types in most systems. For example - you get asked if you have any animals or their parts as you enter te country. You answer no but the leather belt you bought outside of the USA is an animal part. Is that inspector going to hassle you? Most likely not. But they did use their discretion. The law and the application of the law when combined require discretion. I agree that "discretion" can be a two-edged sword. When wielded correctly, everyone is a winner. Sometimes it's otherwise. I'd like to think that more good is done than not, but I'm sure some of it is "in the eye of the beholder". And just as an FYI, in the case you stated above, unless the belt leather was a CITES I, or listed under the ESA, you probably wouldn't need to declare it. There is no need to declare domestic leathers (cow, pig, goat, water buffalo, etc) and for CITES II items, there is a personal baggage exemption under many circumstances. ( 50 CFR 23.15) This is an example of where its better to know the laws, youself. While that's not always possible, or even feasible; whenever you know the law, you don't have to leave as much up to discretion. |
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Post by wingedwishes on Nov 29, 2011 4:22:40 GMT -8
Agreed. I appreciate the common sense. I see you are listed as from the midwest. What state? I was born a Dorothean (Kansan). PS - Don't forget May 25th, Universal towel carrying day.
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Post by exoticimports on Nov 29, 2011 6:53:34 GMT -8
When I travel and plan to import on my return I carry a copy of relevent 50 CFR with me. CBP for the most part doesn't have a clue about the laws, and even USFWS isn't always well versed.
Doing so has both save me and cause greater problems. In once case a particular USFWS manager with a ego problem went so far as to call me a "smuggler" but the good old black and white copies straightened out his attitude.
However, in another instance, CBP had no idea what do to, and being the ever truthful and helpful guy I pulled out the laws and described the options they had...this turned into a temporary seizure which cost me $400. At least I can sleep at night.
One of the greatest recurring problems I've encountered is freshmen USFWS inspectors having the basic, and wrong, thought that "CITES can't be imported." All it takes is to wip out the laws and show them, show them the CITES certificate, and all is good. In a few cases had I not had the laws it would have taken hours to straighten out.
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Post by mygala on Nov 29, 2011 13:35:11 GMT -8
Agreed. I appreciate the common sense. I see you are listed as from the midwest. What state? I was born a Dorothean (Kansan). PS - Don't forget May 25th, Universal towel carrying day. I'm from Illinois originally, but I'm married to a Kentuckian and I get to live with Hoosiers now.  Midwest all the way! |
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