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Post by wollastoni on Dec 16, 2011 9:17:17 GMT -8
dunc < you have this genus, it is just holartic Apatura  And I think ours are prettier with their violet reflects ! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 10:40:12 GMT -8
Yes Olivier we do but try collecting apatura iris in England, you are looked upon with pure hatred, all mine are old 50 years plus or bred, in fact try collecting any butterfly over here, people want to hang you.
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Post by irisscientist on Dec 16, 2011 16:27:06 GMT -8
>I've tried to rear A. celtis a couple of times here in England but I just
>can't get the damned things to pair.
Bobw,
I could not have said it better myself! This is exactly what I have been working on these past few years and thankfully think that I have now worked out why none of the Apaturinae naturally pair in captivity. I am now just waiting for the GC-MS data back (due mid January) in order to confirm my suspicions! Once I have the data, I will update you all here. I am still looking for a Herona and a Euapatura specimen for my SEM analysis though! None available anywhere online. Any offers?
Mark
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Post by beetlehorn on Dec 16, 2011 20:24:50 GMT -8
Well Im' glad to see Im' not the only one that finds this genus so fascinating. I realize they are not on the same level in regards to monetary value or prized status as say Agrias, Ornthoptera or certain Parnassius species, but as for a collector they can be quite interesting and definately deserve a place in any butterfly collection, especially for the Nymphalid collector. In my opinion no matter how inexpensive a group of specimens might be, they deserve just as much regard, and are just as important in terms of collectible status as the more popular and costly ones. In one way they are more desirable to me because quite often they tend to be somewhat overlooked and or absent in many collections. I always tend to go for the more or less obscure Nymphalid examples such as Doxocopa, Epiphile, Apatura, Euthalia, Eunica, etc. To me they are just as fascinating as Charaxes, Prepona or Agrias butterflies. Tom
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Post by bobw on Dec 17, 2011 1:39:04 GMT -8
>I've tried to rear A. celtis a couple of times here in England but I just >can't get the damned things to pair. Bobw, I could not have said it better myself! This is exactly what I have been working on these past few years and thankfully think that I have now worked out why none of the Apaturinae naturally pair in captivity. I am now just waiting for the GC-MS data back (due mid January) in order to confirm my suspicions! Once I have the data, I will update you all here. I am still looking for a Herona and a Euapatura specimen for my SEM analysis though! None available anywhere online. Any offers? Mark Mark I've never had any Apaturinae pair naturally in captivity. Apatura sensu stricto are generally easy to hand-pair ( ilia and metis are easy, iris is a little more difficult but not too bad), and I've heard that some of the Chinese ones are easy enough. However, Asterocampa males just won't hang on, maybe I've not conditioned them properly; I've had similar problems with Sasakia. Bob |
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Post by nomihoudai on Dec 17, 2011 6:47:52 GMT -8
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Post by irisscientist on Dec 17, 2011 8:02:19 GMT -8
Thanks nomihoudai, I ordered a male (Euapatura) from Robert late yesterday evening. I am still looking for a male Herona though, and am yet to find one of these anywhere on, or off line!
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Post by ladobe on Dec 20, 2011 12:19:02 GMT -8
Sept/Oct is my favorite time of the year to be in SE AZ for Lepidoptera, Coleoptera and birding, so I've been there during that period several times over the years for about 2-3 weeks at a time. The favorite haunts included Sabino Canyon, Madera & Box Canyons, Montosa Canyon, East Rio Rico, the Pena Blanca area, Sycamore Canyon/Yank Tank, around Sonoita/Patagonia, and Garden/Sawmill Canyons in Ft Huachuca. But anyplace else that looked promising along the way got a looksee. Long days hiking and long nights running lights was the norm, but the tired was always a good tired on those trips.
Asterocampa... I never had much trouble finding some ova/larva on most of those trips, or collecting gravid females to lay or getting adults to pair naturally. Using taxonomy at the time collected, I got A. celtis antonia and montis, leilia, clyton texana and subpallida, and a idyja argus on those trips. My field partner also got a Doxocopa laure one trip as well.
It's been some years since I was down there, and some things may have changed. Not sure if you can still collect in Garden or Sawmill Canyons anymore for example. But my trips there were always very productive with many species to rear, including quite a few that strayed up from Mexico and beyond. Only place in the west that surpasses SE AZ to me in the number of especially interesting species to rear is the Beartooth Plateau in WY/MT, and no place I've ever been can surpass the shear numbers of leps flying there.
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Post by beetlehorn on Dec 20, 2011 21:04:24 GMT -8
One of the species you mentioned (Asterocampa idyja) has eluded me. I wonder where would be a good place to look, and at what time of year. I am planning another trip to do some photography, and collecting. Is A. idyja a regular stray, or could there possibly be some local breeding occurring in the Southern Arizona area? I assume they also rear on Hackberry trees like other American Emperors. Below is a "borrowed" photo of this species. Credit should be given to Jerome Albre and Oscar Dorado-(photographers). Tom Attachments:
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Post by ladobe on Dec 21, 2011 0:53:27 GMT -8
Tom,
Celtis is their larval food plant, but I never found their ova or larva or heard of anyone who had in AZ (and I still ran with some Lepidopterists Societies back then). Found mine near the Boy Scout Cabin at the upper end of Garden Canyon (near the mouth of Sawmill Canyon in Ft. Huachuca) the first week of Oct. Being strays they could be found anywhere in extreme SE AZ, and maybe anytime during the monsoon season (late June to late Sept). But I think all specimens found so far in SE AZ were collected in Santa Cruz and Cochise Counties. Mine just happened to be almost right on the border between them.
Larry
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Post by beetlehorn on Dec 28, 2011 21:13:42 GMT -8
Thank you for the detailed information, I really appreciate it. I am hopeful in regards to encountering this species. If everything goes ok, I will be returning to Arizona the first week of July. It seems like a long way to go from Tennessee, but I also plan on collecting several other local species. I have included a living photo of Asterocampa clyton. Although they fly at approximately the same time as A. celtis, they are not nearly as numerous, generally speaking. Tom Attachments:
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Post by jshuey on Dec 29, 2011 6:51:31 GMT -8
One of the species you mentioned (Asterocampa idyja) has eluded me. I wonder where would be a good place to look, and at what time of year. I am planning another trip to do some photography, and collecting. Is A. idyja a regular stray, or could there possibly be some local breeding occurring in the Southern Arizona area? I assume they also rear on Hackberry trees like other American Emperors. Below is a "borrowed" photo of this species. Credit should be given to Jerome Albre and Oscar Dorado-(photographers). Tom I don't think that this species occurs regularly in the US. It can be taken commonly (in fermenting fruit traps) in the Yucatan and northern Belize - always in fairly mature forest. The host - a species of Celtis - is fairly common in disturbed areas - but I have never found this butterfly in those areas where the trees are young and obvious. Just in the more intact forests where the trees are mature (and difficult to pick out amoung the taller trees). shuey |
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Post by leptraps on Dec 30, 2011 10:33:20 GMT -8
If you want to collect lots of Asterocampa, use a Bait Trap. For everyone you actually see flying about, you can collect 200 with a Bait Trap. I have included several photographs of Bait Traps loaded with hundreds of Asterocampa, Anaea and Myscelia, and there are always a lot of moths. This trap was on the Rio Grand River near Fronton, Starr County, Texas 30 October 2007. Attachments:
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Post by leptraps on Dec 30, 2011 10:35:36 GMT -8
A close up of the bait container of the trap with several Astercampa's feeding. Attachments:
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Post by leptraps on Dec 30, 2011 10:42:31 GMT -8
I found another photograph of a Bait Trap in Sanderson Canyon near Sanderson, Texas 9 August 2005. There were so many Asterocampa's in the trap it was leaning. Bait Traps do work, And they can be a lot work when you use several. Both maintaining the trap and mounting the specimens. Attachments:
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