|
|
Post by mooks666 on Feb 17, 2012 10:35:42 GMT -8
 Hiya guys just a question for all you guys from the states who rear cecropia, euryalis etc question is how do ye get them past the 3rd instar without them dying off ? Is sleeving the best method or in well ventilated cages l reared euryalis x cecropia hybrids to 4 days of pupation in the late 90s but l lost them due to a bacterial disease which is very frustrating.. Any hints or info would be most gratefully received.. Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by admin on Feb 17, 2012 10:45:23 GMT -8
Hiya guys just a question for all you guys from the states who rear cecropia, euryalis etc question is how do ye get them past the 3rd instar without them dying off ? Is sleeving the best method or in well ventilated cages l reared euryalis x cecropia hybrids to 4 days of pupation in the late 90s but l lost them due to a bacterial disease which is very frustrating.. Any hints or info would be most gratefully received.. Cheers I rear euryalus every year at home in cages and sleeved in my backyard. I get at least a 30% loss. I just figure that as a given. But they live in my area so conditions are ideal. I can imagine that if you are trying to rear these NA species in the UK you are going to have a lot of unknown environmental variables. Best bet is to not overcrowd them and don't let the humidity get too high in their cage. Sleeving is usually better than a cage, if you have the preferred foodplant available and growing in a pot or in the ground. |
|
|
|
Post by mooks666 on Feb 17, 2012 11:49:37 GMT -8
Hi Clark - Thanks for your reply l eagerly watched your video on rearing euryalis and thought to myself those are good ideas that l could use here in the uk yes l have wondered if the uk have different environmental issues than the states. Had friends rear them in seperate boxes one in each to pupation with no probs. Also in sleeves with no problems so theres some experiments to do l guess..Determined to succeed ..
|
|
evra
Full Member
Posts: 230
|
Post by evra on Feb 17, 2012 15:58:26 GMT -8
After 4 years of experimenting, I think I finally have a method figured out for rearing H. c. gloveri on cuttings, which are supposedly the most disease prone of all of the Hyalophora. This past year I lost 25%, but I find that it's pretty tough to do better than that for anything.
Living in a desert, my problem is that I can generally have the normal outside 10% humidity or 100% humidity in a closed container, but I couldn't figure out how to get a more ideal 30-50% humidity. So what I did was I took some disposible 40 oz plastic nut containers, put cuttings of Brazilian Pepper Tree with the larvae in the container (about 40 freshly hatched larvae). Then instead of putting a solid lid back on, I stretched a piece of women's panty hose over the opening. Every day I would take out the cuttings and remove as much of the wilted leaves as I could, put the larvae, remainder of the old cuttings, and fresh cuttings into a second nut container I had waiting. Then I would clean out the first frass container and let it dry for a day, which of course was the standby container for the next day. I did this until they got to the 3rd instar, at which point I moved them to a larger rearing cage that was exposed to the normal outside humidity. I think I only lost 1 or 2 larvae getting them to the 3rd instar. Eventually I ended up with 33 healthy cocoons.
The respiration from the leaves raised the humidity in the container quite a bit, but the panty hose seemed to allow it to breathe enough that it avoided 100% humidity conditions which would have been a bacterial and fungal breeding ground that would have killed all of the larvae within a couple of days. I know the process sounds kind of tedious, but it only took about 5 minutes to change over and clean out a container per day.
|
|
|
|
Post by ladobe on Feb 18, 2012 1:10:58 GMT -8
Decades ago I designed and built rearing cages that I could control all environmental factors in, and prevent parasitization. I could control temperature, photo period, humidity and air flow, and by servicing them routinely and sterilizing them between broods prevent bacterial or viral infections. By design my cages were very healthy. In them I reared most species on just cuttings, often collected hundreds of miles from home or shipped to me by friends in other countries that would stay fresh until consumed due to the design of the cages and a method I also devised to keep larval food plants viable in large quantities for extended periods. Some plant species I could keep viable all through the winter so I could have continuous generations all year when wanted. I traveled far and wide to collect livestock for rearing, so my cages and methods were designed to leave nothing to chance. Over the years I reared 10's of thousands of hundreds of different species in them with very few losses from livestock if they were not parasitized when collected. Many species I also just paired to obtain ovum in cages I designed just for that and egg laying.
To me Saturniidae are very easy to rear - H. cecropia one of the easiest of all of them. I didn't rear this species year round because back then I lived where they were present right around my property. All it took to get lots of ova whenever I wanted to rear some was to put females from wintered cocoons out in calling cages to get them mated. Some years I had so many ova I couldn't give all the extras away, so they were just put out to add to the wild local colony.
I can no longer do field collecting, so no longer rear and gave all my equipment to my son. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the equipment either, the ex took all the photos 10 years ago. But they were easy enough to build, and even easier to use. I had several sizes of them with 4-6 of each size.
FWIW
|
|
|
|
Post by damesd on Feb 18, 2012 20:28:57 GMT -8
Would you be willing to describe the construction of your rearing cages?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by ladobe on Feb 22, 2012 11:36:20 GMT -8
The problem with a one sentence question like this is that it would take volumes to answer fully with just the written word and no pictures or drawings. With limited computer time because of health issues a project not easy for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticleps on Feb 22, 2012 13:13:44 GMT -8
There seems to be some people who have little trouble with the genus, and others cant rear them to save a life. And ive had those results and everywhere in between. They tend to thrive best by themsleves or in small numbers. My Best method is certainly sleeving them. 1 or 2 to a small sleeve and maybe 6-8 in a very large one. Ive also noticed that temp and humidity can play a huge role in the outcome. Another huge factor beleive it or not has been Foodplant selection. Just because its not listed as an FP, doesnt mean it wont work, and in some cases these females dont lay on the best FP, and so you may not be giving it to them either. Ive found this for many other Genus as well. For instance, under the same conditions, I'll lose 80% of a given stock on a known FP, but have 100% survival on a non-known host. Plus the advantage of a near 50% faster growth rate! Cecropia, usually can be found on wild cherry and black gum in my area, but in another it may be Maple or willow. So it may help for you to know where your stock is from to give them what they are use too. Unless your willing to experiment with other FP's not recorded, Id bank on the cherry. Keep the sleeve clean, and numbers lower and you may do better.
These are just MY results, so Im not willing to argue anyone here on thier results or methods. All I can say is refer back to the first sentence. In my circle of friends, Hyalophora can be a sore topic. One year they'll do great, and another they all flop in the 3rd/4th.
no matter how clean, or thinned the numbers are.
|
|
|
|
Post by papilio28570 on Feb 23, 2012 7:43:38 GMT -8
My method of rearing Sats is to sleeve the eggs and let the hatchlings crawl onto the foodplant. 300 eggs will be distributed in 3 to 4 sleeves. There they remain until 3rd instar at which time I move them to rearing cages. The cages are roughly 2 feet square or larger with a wooden bottom. One side of the cage is hinged as a door. There is a cut out, which is normally covered, in the wooden bottom for cleaning the cage. A water hose is used and frass, detritus and any dead larvae are washed out through the hole.
For sleeving, I use large, fine mesh net bags which are sold where swimming pool cleaning supplies are available. The bags are usually attached to a leaf vacuum. They are about 3 feet long, a foot in diameter and the neck is closed with a slide lock over draw strings. This accommodates a fairly large tree branch when the eggs are sleeved. Tiny frass and litter fall to the bottom of the bag away from the larvae.
When time to cage the larvae, I simply slide the sleeve off, cut the branch and place it in cleaned coffee jars along with lots of fresh branches. As the larvae develop, I begin to separate the branches to individual coffee jars and repeat the process. I can have as many as 5 coffee jars going from one hatching and in one cage. Sometimes a second or third cage is involved.
I have reared Luna, Promethea, Securifera, Angulifera, and Polyphemus this way. Latest result was 187 Luna cocoons from roughly 250 eggs.
The rearing area is in the back of my yard under a dense cover of large American Holly, so the cages are generally in the shade with some dappled sunlight in early morning and late afternoon. The area is surrounded by tall shrubs and is not visible from my house.
There is also a large flight cage back there that is 8 feet long and tall and 4 feet wide. I place large potted plants or trees in the cage and release wild collected female butterflies to oviposit. A few hanging baskets in the cage provide nectar sources.
A should upload some photos later.
|
|
|
|
Post by mooks666 on Feb 24, 2012 5:51:18 GMT -8
Hi guys thanks for the information greatly received..  Heres my set up ok its on a small scale as lm just starting up again ...I have some willow and cherry that lm try to force out for rearing, l will be trying to sleeve them if l get any ova lve also got some columbia that l hope to rear on larch or cherry as lve heard they may take that. Im going to put some more windows with netting across them to try and reduce the humidity . I was wondering if cecropia would survive the UK summer outside in sleeves ? And does rain have any affect on them as ye know the UK is famous for rain... Best wishes |
|
|
|
Post by bobw on Feb 24, 2012 7:06:28 GMT -8
About 20 years or so ago I kept cecropia going continuously for about 5 years in Surrey (although you probably get even more rain than we do). Recently, now I have more experience, I can't even get them through one generation.
They're notoriously hit and miss. I remember reading in Brian Gardiner's AES book that he said that beginners are often successful with this species whereas experienced breeders fail time and time again - how true!
Bob
|
|
|
|
Post by nusferatus369 on Feb 26, 2012 14:18:44 GMT -8
the big cage in the picture is the best. I rear all my saturnidae in this cage. I have about 10 to 20% of lost.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Feb 27, 2012 12:50:25 GMT -8
I live in an area that is rife with Cecropia, luna, promethea, and polyphemus. I have raised many broods and thousands of individuals.
Cecropia I fed maple, cherry, or rarely willow.
The way I raised all species was the same:
1. put adult female into paper bag, she lays eggs.
2. Cut paper with eggs and put into small tupperware containers.
3. When eggs hatch, put in a couple leaves; poke holes into tupperware.
4. When larvae get to about 4mm size, put them all- often hundreds- into a 120 litre aquarium, no top- they won't leave the food.
5. When old leaves got very moldy and lots of frass, put in fresh cuttings. Larvae will go to the fresh food. Remove cuttings, clean out aquarium, return larvae to aquarium.
6. Some will start pupation a week before the last do. At this time, I did not disturb the moldy frass and rotted leaves, so as not to disturb those that were making cacoons.
In all, I probably lost 20% from eggs to cacoons, but who cares when you have 400 larvae?
The one problem I did have was when I came home at 2:30am. I climbed into bed and put my head on my pillow, and felt something cold and wet. I got up, turned on the light, and saw hundreds of last istar luna all over my room. I looked at the open aquarium, and saw that they had eaten all the food. So I gathered them up, put them into the aquarium, covered it with plastic wrap, got back in the car, drove 2km to the nearest walnut trees, got them food, went home and fed them. Got to sleep at 4am. From then on I made sure there was enough food to get them through the night.
|
|
|
|
Post by mooks666 on Feb 28, 2012 3:22:31 GMT -8
Thanks for the replies guys thats one hell of a story bout your luna larvae m8 . Interesting bout cecropia taking maple which is good for me have quite a lot here plus sycamore and alder..
An of you know when to take my columbia cocoons out of winter quarters ? As lve heard they hatch earlier than cecropia but l dont want them out before foods available lm hoping they would take willow or cherry...
Best regards
IAN
|
|
evra
Full Member
Posts: 230
|
Post by evra on Feb 28, 2012 16:55:19 GMT -8
Are your columbia cocoons H. columbia columbia or H. columbia gloveri? They used to be considered different species, and some people still consider them to be so. Anyway, the purpose of the question is that H. columbia columbia is almost exclusively a larch feeder in the wild, whereas H. columbia gloveri will feed on a lot of different things, just about any type of willow, privet, Russian olive, cherry, plum, Brazilian Pepper Tree, manzanita, ceanothus, etc.
I don't know if you can tell just from the cocoons alone. If you know where the wild stock originated you would most likely know if it is columbia columbia or columbia gloveri.
|
|
