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Post by jackblack on Mar 9, 2012 0:47:12 GMT -8
How do you know Metaxymorpha gloriosa is more common than Cast rollei ?
In my block of rainforest both are abundant , and to say the Calodema and Metaxymorpha are poisonous is maybe ? out of the question , how many have you eaten .There is a bit of heresay evidence of Aussie Bups being toxic but not much published on this , I can`t see all Bups being toxic .
I have seen Cane toad ### full of Temognatha regia elytra .
Of course a lure like a red bucket is only going to work in the immediate area the beetles occur .
I have never seen a Calodema or Metaxymorpha flying in a cane paddock away from the rainforest .
Females are also attracted to the colours , as there are red flowers in the rainforest as well and if the females avoided the red then some would starve especialy if their regular foodplants aren`t blossoming .Generally males are attracted to the lures.
Those pages of Casts you display are copyright hope you got Shelleys permission to use them .
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 9, 2012 1:32:43 GMT -8
I'm just demonstrating the Castiarina is the mimicking one by using pages from Shelley's book by quoting and giving all the credits to Shelley. So gloriosa can only be the mimicry model.
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Post by Chris Grinter on Mar 9, 2012 3:00:49 GMT -8
Those pages of Casts you display are copyright hope you got Shelleys permission to use them . I'm pretty sure permission was not needed in this instance (correct me if I'm wrong). Everything posted here was with full attribution and only part of a work (doesn't even have image key). Not to mention it was non-profit and is considered "criticism/comment" or "education". This is all covered by the "fair use" copyright exemptions in the USA that tend to be fairly generous. The Australian "fair dealing" exemptions where this book was published are similar but a little more restrictive. UK/AU/EU laws tend to favor the copyright holder more... but at the very least InsectNet is in the clear for having this reproduced here since California has specific statues to prevent foreign copyright laws from affecting US citizens unjustly and there are no grounds for trouble under US law. |
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Post by bichos on Mar 9, 2012 15:41:05 GMT -8
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 9, 2012 22:24:49 GMT -8
Well just think about it if some one is trying to chase and kill you, would you run off by yourself or you will try and run into a crowd and blend in with the rest?
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Post by jackblack on Mar 13, 2012 6:35:35 GMT -8
Lucanidae if you spend more time thinking on this subject than most other people its time to publish your results in a scientific journal , or even here on insectnet forum, anyone can can say oh one beetle sp is bigger than the other or one mimicks the other but what makes you come to that conclusion , this is what furthering knowledge is all about .As you think about it more than anyone else please enlighten us .
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 13, 2012 15:45:49 GMT -8
Think what ever you want, I know we will never agree on anything and just leave it as that.  |
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Post by jackblack on Mar 14, 2012 3:38:01 GMT -8
I can agree with a lot of people if a constructive comment is made .
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Post by mimicbuster on Mar 18, 2012 15:58:49 GMT -8
I've just found this interesting discussion and would like to offer several thoughts to start with: 1) there are defined types of mimicry where a distasteful model does not have to be part of a complex of species, whether in different genera or in the same genus; 2) before the speculation goes too wild, one must consider who/what the predator(s) is because if the main predator is not going to learn that a particular color pattern comes along with a bad taste, what drives the mimics to look like the model?; 3) the concept of 'speed mimicry' probably isn't happening with these buprestids but 'numerical mimicry' is a very good bet to offer an explanation if there is no distasteful model. Numerical mimicry was first suggested for butterflies, but the late Japanese buprestid specialist Y. Kurosawa hypothesized that it was probably happening with a group of buprestids in SE Asia. In that case, ca. 8 species in 5 genera all could be found sitting on leaves in the forest, each having the same iridescent green dorsal color and purple ventral colors. Numerical mimicry posits that in a complex of species which all look alike, that each species will suffer smaller losses because the predators take from each randomly. Thus in the case of Calodema, Metaxymorpha and Castiarina species evolving into the same color patterns and being active in the same habitat and visiting the same flowers, some of the predators at least will likely be attracted to color/pattern before size of the prey. Lastly, please notice that in all(?) other cases where mostly Castiarina species are parts of mimicry groups with models such as lycids, cantharids, and distasteful species from other beetle families, there is no recorded case of a distastful Castiraina model.
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Post by allotopus on Dec 27, 2020 12:03:27 GMT -8
Hello lucanidae 25 pls contact me at aliotisse288@gmail.com regarding Australian buprestidae thanks
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