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Post by nomad on Jul 1, 2013 10:33:57 GMT -8
Here is a specimen of a apparently genuine British specimen of Parnassus Apollo with original data labels.  |
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Post by lepidofrance on Jul 1, 2013 12:36:55 GMT -8
Amazing ! Stunning !
From which place in the UK ?
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Post by nomad on Jul 1, 2013 12:44:48 GMT -8
The specimen was captured at Dover in Kent, just across the channel.
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Post by saturniidave on Jul 1, 2013 17:16:43 GMT -8
I think the label reads 'Tasker' not Tucker. Tasker was a well known Kentish collector but was very gullible to the delight of the scammers that lived even then. Certain people would tell of a certain rarity to be found in such and such a place, and when the collector arrived a captive bred specimen would be surreptitiously released for the collector to catch. It could be genuine, but keep an open mind!
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Post by wollastoni on Jul 2, 2013 0:00:50 GMT -8
True that it would be very strange...
Maybe an introduced specimen by a local entomologist...
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Post by lepidofrance on Jul 2, 2013 1:04:05 GMT -8
Dear friends,
you are too suspicious! The Dover area is well known for its glaciers, beautiful pastures, meadows of Crassulaceae, Sedum sp.) Sempervivum sp. and Saxifraga sp ...
Next winter, I'll go there to improve my record of downhill skiing.
I quote : "The other thing is that form the nearest French population it takes about 300km to Dower"
the nearest french population ? Which one ? From Vosgian mountains ? Jura ? Much more than 300 km !
As far I know, no evidence of P. apollo on Montmartre and Montparnasse (neither on Mont Saint-Michel).
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Post by enyas24 on Jul 2, 2013 7:12:30 GMT -8
I agree with radusho. Not even the english entomological society has agreed to whether or not apollo has ever been established in the UK. Also the butterfly is quite big and cannot be mistaken for any other, and I tell you collectors and locals here have seen and recorded almost all of the native species. We have to many people breeding butterflies here and usually apollo even though it is protected. I know for sure that people have released such butterflies in the past as a joke, in order to establish a population and also to attract collectors. To my best knowledge there is no such thing as an English parnassius apollo, sorry.
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Post by nomad on Jul 2, 2013 9:58:00 GMT -8
Hi all
I have just read that P. apollo may be a rare natural immigrant to the British shores where it was last recorded in 1986. However the 20 or so captures and sightings could be the result of immature stages being accidentally imported. Early records were from the Scottish Highlands when it possibly migrated from Scandinavia, although deliberate releases could not be ruled out. All later records are from south and south-east England.
I would be surprised if this species ever made it naturally to our shores, especially as it is only found in certain alpine valleys. I would be interested to know if this species has ever turned up in lowland France.
However this is a lovely specimen of P. apollo from a very early date.
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Post by wollastoni on Jul 2, 2013 10:05:15 GMT -8
I don't think apollo appeared in real "lowland" France, and especially in Northern France.
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Post by bobw on Jul 2, 2013 11:26:42 GMT -8
P. apollo could not survive in southern England. It's not normally found below about 500 metres and the larvae need cold air temperatures and plenty of sunshine to survive. I've reared it here several times and rearing it at low altitudes always produces very small adults. All specimens from southern England must be deliberate or accidental introductions.
It's certainly possible that Scottish mountains could provide suitable habitat, although it's probably a bit on the wet side up there. However, if it was really found there I would have thought that colonies would have been found.
Bob
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Post by nomad on Jul 2, 2013 12:10:44 GMT -8
I do not think, this species has ever been resident in the Scottish Highlands, such a large conspicuous species would have been found long ago. This area have been well explored by lepidopterists. I think that the specimens were deliberately released for collectors or they were bred and introduced and they certainly managed to survive here till they were found. However nothing seems impossible and if I was a early entomologist who captured one, I know what I would like to believe.
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Post by lepidofrance on Jul 2, 2013 14:14:42 GMT -8
As far I know, Parnassius apollo democratus flies in lowland areas. These samples are from the Tambov area (Russia). On the other hand, climatic conditions in Tambov differ rather strongly than those in Dover ....  |
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Post by bobw on Jul 3, 2013 2:41:50 GMT -8
To Scotland it takes also about 400km from the nearest population in Scandinavia, so impossible for apollo again. "It's not normally found below about 500 metres and the larvae need cold air temperatures" absolutely NOT. In Scandinavia hundreds of localities are near the see level at the elevation under 200 or even under 100. The whole Gottland is not higher than 50m and plenty of other Finish small islands...Also it is not true that larva need cold temperatures. It feeds only during hot and sunny days. The only thing why we think that apollo is a mountain butterfly is, that all lower elevation populations are long extinct... OK, I should have qualified my statement by saying it is normally only found at high(ish) altitude or latitude. There are many species that are found only in the arctic or in mountains further south, my guess is that it's to do with air pressure. I've observed the species in the field and the larvae only generally come out to feed when the sun is out but the air temprature is fairly cool. They particularly like it when sunny spells are interspersed with clouds. If it gets too hot they hide under rocks or bushes. On several occasions I've seen lots of larvae one day but nothing the next due to slight changes in the weather. Rearing them in captivity at low elevation in southern England it's best to do them early in the year. Once it gets to late June/July the full-grown larvae usually die from what looks like heat exhaustion. Bob |
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Post by timmsyrj on Jul 4, 2013 0:06:20 GMT -8
Label should read SUCKER not Tucker!!!!
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Post by nomad on Jul 4, 2013 9:39:59 GMT -8
Label should read SUCKER not Tucker!!!! A bit harsh for the Victorian collector? |
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