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Post by takahe on Oct 9, 2013 4:27:27 GMT -8
Charaxes species seem to be difficult to relax and spread (I'm assuming due to the thick bodies and highly developed flight muscles). In my experience they remain fairly stiff and thus wings are easily torn. I'm about to invest in Charaxes acraeoides, so any tips for better relaxation would be great.
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Post by bobw on Oct 9, 2013 5:29:46 GMT -8
I have the same problem with Agrias and Prepona, which are the same tribe. I understand that many people cut the wing muscles with a scalpel, but I'm wary of trying this as it seems too easy to overdo it and cut the wing off completely.
Bob
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Post by Sergey Kovalev on Oct 9, 2013 7:19:44 GMT -8
 Never I cut wing veins. 12 clocks in an exsiccator. I take out and warm up a body fingers (at the basis of veins) After inject of warm water in the basis of forward veins (an insulinic syringe 1 ml. To inject ABSOLUTELY SLIGHTLY). Again I warm up a body hands, but is more narrow THROUGH the weak napkin (it will absorb excess injected water) And again 6-12 clocks in an exsiccator (depending on softness of a body) Serg |
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Post by lordpandarus on Oct 9, 2013 12:20:36 GMT -8
I usually use the nail of my thumb to open the wings and loosen them properly. Helps if you let it grow a bit if you know your spreading butterflies. You have to dig to get to base the joint so there's no kinks when you spread it. You also have to learn point when you know when the relaxing alone is sufficient to do this so you don't damage the wings NOTE: Both Charaxes acraeoides I spread became VERY LOOSE with relaxing ONLY. Wings almost fell off. Maybe something about this species Attachments:
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Post by prillbug4 on Oct 9, 2013 13:51:59 GMT -8
I've relaxed them in about 24hours. The ones that I have.
Jeff Prill
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Post by takahe on Oct 9, 2013 18:44:12 GMT -8
All good suggestions. I'd already figured at least 24 hours in the relaxer would be almost a given on these, as it is for Prepona, Agrias and other thick bodied nymphalids. The thumbnail trick won't work for me as mine aren't near long enough.
My next question would be: Is Bill Garthe's steam method a good idea for these or are Charaxes wings easily damaged by the hot steam (like some Ornithoptera and gloss swallowtails seem to be - greens seem really sensitive to the heat)?
I haven't handled many Charaxes yet but the few I have done were quite a chore. Very, very stiff even after 20 or so hours and being injected.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2013 3:41:12 GMT -8
Oops, you must have mixed me up with someone else. I do not use steam to soften, but I do advocate injections of gin into the thorax from between the legs at a 45 degree angle towards the head. I soften for a bit, then inject gin, work the wings, wait, then re inject if needed. Gin has made many a stubborn specimen seem like fresh for me. Just wanted to share my thoughts. I even know guys who inject totally dry specimens, but I prefer the two pronged approach of softening w gin injections. Lastly...I do often elevate the temperature in the softening chamber a bit, but not nearly to steaming. I would say that the temperature in the chamber above a couple of 25 wt. bulbs is around 110 to120 degrees.
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Post by takahe on Oct 10, 2013 4:09:16 GMT -8
Someone had a video here some time ago where they poured the hot water into a container and it steamed the specimens. Not sure now exactly who it was. You came to mind because I remember you talking a lot about various relaxing techniques.
I've injected specimens for a long time how but only with water. I wonder what it would be about gin that would make a difference.
In any case, thanks for the advice. I want to be very sure of what I'm doing before messing with something like Charaxes acraeoides.
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Post by Sergey Kovalev on Oct 10, 2013 6:01:26 GMT -8
Personally I always put an exsiccator on a ladle with very hot water. In an exsiccator I put strongly the wet hot sand Right after its boiling.
Serg
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Post by bobw on Oct 10, 2013 7:20:51 GMT -8
All good suggestions. I'd already figured at least 24 hours in the relaxer would be almost a given on these, as it is for Prepona, Agrias and other thick bodied nymphalids. I leave Agrias and Prepona in the relaxing box for up to a week, and I still often find them too stiff to set properly. Bob |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2013 10:25:53 GMT -8
the finger nail works for me too but practice on common stuff first, it does help greatly.
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Post by takahe on Oct 10, 2013 11:44:10 GMT -8
You must have to use some heavy duty mold inhibitors to leave them in there for a week. I've always used napthalene in mine and never had any mold, but typically I've left specimens in about 2 days or less. I was always afraid the wings would get too saturated if they were in to long and the veins would bend and crease (that did happen with an Ornithoptera and an Asterope).
What does the fingernail accomplish that some other rigid item wouldn't? Maybe just easier to manipulate because you're not having to hold something?
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Post by lordpandarus on Oct 11, 2013 2:09:45 GMT -8
The fingernail works because you get a tactile feel of what your doing , you can find the base of the wing joint correctly and also the right pressure to apply . I tried using a rigid object but it doesn't work for me. But I guess it all depends how your fingers are shaped and it may not work for everyone
Max I leave in a relaxing box is 48 hours. I use damp paper towels with the specimens directly in between in a tupperware
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Post by bobw on Oct 11, 2013 3:03:46 GMT -8
You must have to use some heavy duty mold inhibitors to leave them in there for a week. I use TCP as a mould inhibitor and I've not had any problems with mould, even up to two weeks. Bob |
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Post by takahe on Oct 11, 2013 12:09:35 GMT -8
I've never had any mold either, and I always used napthalene. When I was in college the entomology instructor I had was using a few drops of liquid phenol. It worked because I never saw any mold there either, but a lot harder to get and more hazardous so I think I'll keep using napthalene. I don't think I ever left anything in there more than 48 hours either. I do use a tupperware container with wet sponges, but maybe the steaming water is overkill. Many specimens get very soft and are so easily spread, but some just seem to stay stiff. Those are mainly the thick-bodied nymphalids. One of the worst in my experiences for being stiff was Megathymus.
Yes all fingers are shaped different. I have small hands (for a guy my size) with fairly short fingers and my nails have always been short as well. They rarely get past the tips of my fingers. Even when they did they aren't the wide flat type of nail I'm sure you're talking about.
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