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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 27, 2011 16:41:35 GMT -8
I'll repost this one for this new message board. My favorite one Attachments:
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 6, 2011 6:17:14 GMT -8
Wonderful female from niepelti group, my Lord.
They fly very slowly and very low in comparison with most of Papuan Delias that flies up in the air and very fast.
There have been a lot of discussions on this group by specialists. Now three species have been isolated (D. meeki, D. anamesa and D. niepelti) but the real status of each subspecies is still to be confirmed.
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Post by africaone on Apr 6, 2011 6:35:19 GMT -8
"but the real status of each subspecies is still to be confirmed. " .... I just have a look at BOLD to see if barcode may be useful for Delias ... and it seems yes (the few records on the site seems promising) ! May be, it is time to start a project on a such big and attractive genus. I participated on a such project on Colotis / Teracolus and results are very useful and offered a more clear POV on the genus + answered to some  Thierry |
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 6, 2011 7:10:00 GMT -8
Yes it is and some works are currently done.
A full Delias barcoding would be great if done by guys who have reliable collecting datas on Papuan leps (Henk, Chris...).
But it is a life work on such a big genus with so many subspecies (and still many species to be discovered in Papua and few in Asia).
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 17, 2011 8:28:04 GMT -8
A pair of the very rare Delias yagishi'tai from Taliabu island.
It is the first picture I know on the web for the female.
Male : January 2009 / Taliabu / Indonesia / Coll. Pequin
Female : September 2010 / Taliabu / Indonesia / Coll. Pequin
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Post by admin on Apr 19, 2011 22:13:05 GMT -8
All awesome.
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Post by thanos on Apr 29, 2011 17:37:00 GMT -8
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Post by nomihoudai on Apr 30, 2011 1:16:58 GMT -8
1. The auction is not over yet.
2. The female is not in the best shape ( compare the black color to Barry's, btw a wonderful pic! ) .
3. The market for Delias is in Europe I guess a little bit smaller than Prepona and Charaxes where everybody jumps onto when one is for sale.
4. All Delias collectors I have seen are series collectors, so they like for example to have 10 specimen of a species which easily surpasses the price of a single Prepona werneri.
My thoughts on the price of the specimen.
In 6 weeks I will be able to show my own, first ever, self collected Delias in this topic =) I can't await it. I was amazed when I saw them in the wild how high they fly and that my net was too short, I had to wait a long time until they came down a little bit and then catch them. Not always did they come down far enough, I saw Delias crithoe but the only thing I could do was watch them from far ...
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Post by thanos on Apr 30, 2011 15:28:40 GMT -8
If you want to compare the value and the difficulty to get(in terms of the amount of money you have to pay for each specimen) between 2 species,you must compare 1 specimen of the one species with 1 specimen of the other species (and of the same sex). And not 1 of the one with 10 of the other (lol..). Also,I let you know that I'm a series collector of all.So..,imagine the price of 10 close to A1 Prepona werneri,for example,(in case you are not aware,an A1- blue form werneri female costs about 2000 euros,and if you are very lucky you can find it at 1500 euros),let's say 5 pairs of werneri,and compare with the price of 5 pairs of D.subviridis of also close to A1 quality...You can get all 5 pairs for maybe less than an A1- female werneri  . Ok,the above auction is not over yet,but I think it is for sure impossible to end at the level of 1500 euros(the price will be too much lower). And the problem for the collectors of Papilio,Ornithoptera,Charaxes,Agrias,Prepona is that many (sub)species/forms(mainly males in Ornithoptera,females in Papilio,Prepona,Charaxes,Agrias,as known) are still super expensive today(price hasn't fallen down and availability is very low,even for many species price has been increased the last years),while the vast majority of the Delias species(very common,but with beautiful undersides) you can get on ebay at 1-5 usd the specimen,and even the rarest (sub)species are much cheaper and more affordable than the rarest (sub)species of,for example,Prepona or Agrias.Maybe a few certain Delias species,known from very few specimens in worldwide collections,are even harder to find/collect in nature(very localised or rare etc) than a female werneri(for example),but I'm not aware of a single Delias specimen(not including gynandromorphs) sold for thousands of euros. Thanos (PS: I was offered a pair of the golden aberration of Ornithoptera priamus euphorion for more than 10.000 euro,a female Charaxes fournierae vanderbergeri for 5000 euro,Ornithoptera allotei costs more than 5000 euro,and many other similar examples..Who is able to buy such specimens to complete his Ornithoptera or Charaxes etc collection,if not a rich man..? ). |
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mpenn
New Member
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Post by mpenn on Apr 30, 2011 19:10:16 GMT -8
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Post by thanos on Apr 30, 2011 21:09:28 GMT -8
Nice work of Jean-Marc.
A simple question: As they are so localised and hard to find on mountainous habitats,and they are also difficult to collect(high and quick fliers),then why they are generally cheap ?
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Post by nomihoudai on May 1, 2011 6:58:36 GMT -8
>Why are they generally cheap ?
Because of the local collectors, you can tell them to stay for a whole week on the mountain and get a small series of the species and a whole bunch of other butterflies which will pay off...
While I could have given this simple answer this morning already I did not because your reply of "Delias being cheap" did bother me and I had to think about it for today.
Is Delias collecting cheap ?
Hell no! It is not! But why so ?
Being a true passionate collector one surely grows the need and the interest in seeing the object of ones interest alive and in natural habitat, so true Delias collectors have to travel a lot to far distant places and to a lot of them because most species just inhabit one mountain or mountain range and the mountains in SE Asia are pretty dispersed.The costs of such a collection quickly grows into thousands of $/€.
Therefore don't judge the value of such a collection by the prices the specimen do fetch in eBay because eBay is for desk collectors just like you are one when it comes down to tropical stuff. I guess you don't like to admit it but when it comes to tropical specimen you are what you hate most yourself, a desk specialist.
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Post by thanos on May 1, 2011 8:00:58 GMT -8
'Delias being cheap' -----> It is a fact. Tell me why has never been offered on ebay a female Prepona werneri,a female Charaxes fournierae in A1 or A1- quality,a Prepona lambertoana,a female Charaxes acraeoides ect..? I think because they are just much rarer and harder to get than Delias in general. In S.America or Africa don't exist local collectors ?? And why the availability of butterflies like the above is always too low,and you have to pay huge amounts out of ebay to get them ? Trips(also very expensive) are made for them to S.America and Africa. Just they are extremely difficult to find in good condition in the wild specimens like the above ! Hm,and about your comments about 'desc specialists',I have to tell you that I live in a TOP RICH EUROPEAN country in insects..(yes,I feel lucky!  ) and I have already collected myself for many years most of our most interesting places for great/endemic species of both Lepidoptera(I have personal field experience with more than 210 out of the 234 species of our Rhopalocera,missing only a few species endemic to some of our islands where I haven't collected yet) and Coleoptera but also of other orders (the most valuable/rich habitats in Greece are almost exclusively mountainous -each trip is not easy at all and costs me a lot $$ by the way even here,but I enjoy it as passionate field collector). About the tropical stuff that I have got until now,yes,they are all either bought or exchanged,as most other collectors do worldwide -this does not mean that I don't know many things for these species,like their biology,behaviour etc.I don't collect objects for decoration..I make scientific collection and am really passionate and interested in the specimens I buy,as I am in the ones I catch myself in Greece..So,I've read and read a lot about them.My dream is to collect in S.America or Papua etc,and I will do it when I will be able economically etc.. Thanos |
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Post by thanos on May 1, 2011 18:53:55 GMT -8
I totally disagree with you,but I will not argue with you.
You can spend years in Ecuador(at werneri's habitat)without seeing a single female(so I don't think it's overpriced).Same with diaziana in Mexico,female C.acraeoides in Gabon,etc(not only too rare,but such butterflies are also extremely elusive).And I know these from persons who have tried for many years to collect in the wild such butterflies with zero or minor success..It's not the same with even the females of the hardest Delias species,if you find the locality(at least you see them!).
Although not a Delias collector(at least yet),I like them and I find particular species very beautiful. I just stated the fact that they are generally cheap and liked to know the reason why,if they are not common.
(PS: With your above characterisms 'stupid,smarter,more knowledgeable' I was just laughing).
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Post by wollastoni on May 2, 2011 1:25:46 GMT -8
2 words: some Delias are common, some are very rare. It is the same for Agrias, Prepona...
Some Delias are sold for more than 2000€ like new messalina ssp or cumanau and so on.
Many Delias females are unknown to science so please stop tell "at least you see them" ... and please try to find a female of the common Delias toxopei... They are so rare that Detani never saw one but sold about 10000 males...
About subviridis, it is not rare anymore as a new locality has been found. Eileenae has never been rare.
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. 
) and I have already collected myself for many years most of our most interesting places for great/endemic species of both Lepidoptera(I have personal field experience with more than 210 out of the 234 species of our Rhopalocera,missing only a few species endemic to some of our islands where I haven't collected yet) and Coleoptera but also of other orders (the most valuable/rich habitats in Greece are almost exclusively mountainous -each trip is not easy at all and costs me a lot $$ by the way even here,but I enjoy it as passionate field collector). About the tropical stuff that I have got until now,yes,they are all either bought or exchanged,as most other collectors do worldwide -this does not mean that I don't know many things for these species,like their biology,behaviour etc.I don't collect objects for decoration..I make scientific collection and am really passionate and interested in the specimens I buy,as I am in the ones I catch myself in Greece..So,I've read and read a lot about them.My dream is to collect in S.America or Papua etc,and I will do it when I will be able economically etc..