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Post by bandrow on May 15, 2015 18:56:24 GMT -8
Greetings,
I scanned through the preceding posts pretty quickly so if I repeat anything, sorry folks!
I do this kind of trapping frequently and I would concur that the best dungs are human and pig. While I've used human (my own) several times in a "pinch" (pun intended) - I prefer pig dung just for the simplicity of gathering it from a farm and hauling it with me. I pack a large plastic peanut-butter jar full, seal that inside several layers of Ziplocs and then place it into a plastic coffee container for an extra seal. Just be sure to keep it in as cool a place in the car as possible.
As for adding malt to ferment the dung bait - ferment the malt in a separate container by itself. Once in the field, mix the dung and malt together as you set the traps. If the malt is already fermenting when added to the dung, it will act the same as if you fermented the two baits together. The malt also adds liquid to the dung to keep it from drying as quickly. Mixing at the time of setting the traps avoids the potential dung/malt bomb in the car. Just be sure to keep the malt vented periodically - it too will build pressure and if it goes, your car will smell like a brewery - not good.
Cheers! Bandrow
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Post by garin33 on May 16, 2015 14:22:23 GMT -8
Thanks Bandrow, more great information.
Regarding the malt and fermentation. Can you just add the malt to water onsite and then add to the dung? Or do you need to start the fermentation process ahead of time? If so, how long?
I'm assuming that you guys feel that the fermentation of the dung makes a big difference. I would have thought that human dung alone would be plenty stinky. I can only imagine how bad the fermented human dung must smell.
Thanks, Garin
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 18:01:00 GMT -8
What about a nice fresh pile of herbivore waste like cow or horse? I don't see how that wouldn't work.
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Post by bandrow on May 16, 2015 22:17:01 GMT -8
Greetings,
I use the dung without the fermenting malt in most instances - mostly because it's easier that way, especially when on a trip and moving from place to place. While the malt may bring in more geotrupines, the dung by itself works just fine. Using just dung, I've actually had Phanaeus arriving at the trap before I was finished installing it - they come quick on a hot day with a little breeze to waft the stink around.
It is best to get the malt fermenting before adding to the bait - in the field it may take a while to get rolling. It usually takes a couple of days to get it fermenting well. Having it fermented at the time of trap placement ensures it will begin working right away.
Keep in mind too that you can use the fermented malt (or fermented dark brown sugar) in pitfall cups by itself - especially in the SE U.S. for things like Peltotrupes, Mycotrupes and Geotrupes. And you can use it in hanging milk or soda bottles as an attractant for Cerambycidae.
As for herbivore dung - cow can be fairly productive - I've taken Phanaeus, Copris, Dichotomius, and numerous species of Onthophagus and aphodiines in cattle dung. Horse dung does not seem to be very productive, and the only species I can remember off the top of my head collecting from cattle dung is Aphodius fimetarius, an introduced species.
Hope this is helpful!
Bandrow
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Post by garin33 on Sept 2, 2015 14:52:14 GMT -8
Hello all,
Just to follow up with this thread. I set some dung beetle traps baited with human dung and cow dung in Southern Arizona in the first week of August. I was able to get numerous Canthon imitators and Canthon indigaceus in the human dung traps but just a few in the cow dung traps. So it did appear that the human dung was very effective. I did not get any Phanaeus which was the dung beetle that I was hoping to catch but maybe next year. So thanks to all those who posted on this thread, it was extremely helpful and much appreciated. Thanks, Garin
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w1
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Posts: 123
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Post by w1 on Sept 9, 2015 16:32:19 GMT -8
Yes, it's ok to leave poop in the jar. But once you add the maltose – it becomes super poop. We were in Belize once, and a co worked left super poop in the SUV. So much pressure built up that it creased the lid and sprayed crap all over the back storage area. The car rental place was not amused. I wasn’t too happy about it either. I've been told that human and pig is the best - never heard too much about other sources. Mostly because I'm not really a coleopterist. When I've been involved with this, we are setting lots of traps as part of ecological sampling projects, and you need a good supply.That's the only time I really do any of this. Here is a photo showing the pitfall traps - with the rain shield off. I should point out that rotting mushrooms and carrion are also great baits for beetles - and attract diferent groups. With Carrion, you really need to secure a rain shield with chicken wire that is spiked into the ground. Otherwise scavengers will wreck the traps. John There is a paper somewhere online. They did studies on different excrements productivity. According to the paper human and chimpanzee have the best scent...for dung beetles.
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Post by garin33 on Sept 10, 2015 14:05:48 GMT -8
Yes, I think I read the same article. haha, that was funny, ...for dung beetles.
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Post by politula on Sept 22, 2015 10:07:26 GMT -8
I just did the same thing. Mixed a bottle of human dung and molasses. Yesterday I noticed the lid was bulging so I opened it. Boom! All over me, my shower stall, walls and everything else. My arm looked like a giant O'Henry bar. Gross.
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Post by mothman27 on Jan 20, 2016 9:16:33 GMT -8
Has anyone tried using Chicken or duck dung? I have both at my house so I may try that next year.
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Post by bandrow on Jan 20, 2016 19:03:10 GMT -8
Greetings, I've never used fowl dung, only foul dung. Sorry - couldn't resist that. Seriously - trying bird dung could be interesting - not sure what you'd get, but trying new things can sometimes be surprisingly productive. I have used deer dung with some success. I collect relatively fresh deer dung and freeze it - then when ready to use it, just thaw it and add a bit of water to "reconstitute" it. Works for a variety of aphodiine scarabs. I have heard that a variety of scarabs and trogids will come to decomposing chicken feathers. In particular, Deltochilum gibbosum in the southeastern U.S. Not sure how one would prepare the bait - maybe you can find something on-line about it. Cheers! Bandrow
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Post by mothman27 on Feb 17, 2017 14:31:28 GMT -8
What is a good place to position a trap as mentioned in this thread? I am mostly after Phanaeus, Copris and Dichotomius. woods or open area?
Thanks, Tim
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Post by bandrow on Feb 17, 2017 21:03:55 GMT -8
Hi Tim,
I would suggest trying different habitats in your area for different species. Traps set in wooded areas will produce different species than those placed in open fields, etc. Setting traps near areas supporting cattle or other livestock can be productive - I've often set pitfalls baited with pig dung outside the fences of pastures with cattle and did very well - the animals tend to concentrate the beetles in the area.
The open pasture areas tend to produce more species of Canthon, Onthophagus, Phanaeus and some introduced aphodiines, while more wooded areas will produce native Onthophagus and aphodiines, as well as Geotrupes, Odonteus, Copris and some Canthon.
I've taken a few specimens of Phanaeus triangularis in Ohio in wooded areas, while in the South, the same species seems to be more common in floodplains of rivers. Even different soil types can support different species complexes - clay versus sand, for example.
If you'll let me know where you're located, I might be able to give you more specific details...
Cheers! Bandrow
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Post by mothman27 on Feb 18, 2017 6:53:02 GMT -8
Thank you. What Phaneus species could be found here besides P. vindex?
I am in northeastern Indiana.
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Post by bandrow on Feb 18, 2017 19:04:01 GMT -8
Hi Tim,
I grew up in northern Ohio - Mansfield - so I'm pretty familiar with the general area. Phanaeus vindex is likely your only species of that genus in the area. Phanaeus triangularis (previously called subspecies torrens in the North), can be found in southeastern Ohio in wooded areas, but is relatively uncommon there. You should be able to get Geotrupes semiopacus, G. splendidus and maybe G. blackburnii; Copris fricator; several Onthophagus, including O. nuchicornis in sandy areas; and a variety of aphodiines. It's possible that Canthon chalcites and Dichotomius carolinus could be there, but in my experience, those species are more common further south. Deltochilum gibbosum occurs down in Harrison and Crawford Counties in southern Indiana as well.
You could also get some species of Odonteus and Bolbocerosoma, but those are almost as common at lights as in traps.
Hope this helps! Bandrow
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Feb 19, 2017 1:37:17 GMT -8
I am a Lepidopterist by avocation, I have some interest in Coleoptera and when I find interesting beetles I collect them for my Coleopterist friends.
About 20+ years ago I made Pit Fall Traps as part of my Leptraps product line. I soon learned that most Coleopterist are cheaper than Lepidopterist.
Speaking of Dung, I have of often wondered how good my $hit would be after a trip to the Waffle House!
Just a thought!
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