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Post by rayrard on Sept 29, 2017 22:28:36 GMT -8
What is the habitat type of cerina?
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Sept 29, 2017 23:58:34 GMT -8
Papaipema insulidens is a western species known only from WA, OR & CA.
The specimens in your post looks like Papaipema arctiveron.
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Post by mothman27 on Sept 30, 2017 4:37:42 GMT -8
Actually, Papaipema birdi was synonymized with P. insulidens in Lafontaine & Schmidt (2015) and that is what the specimen I posted is. If you try finding a bugguide or MPG page with P. birdi you will see what I mean. It is actually more similar to baptisiae than arctivorens. The basal area spots are all white whereas in P. baptisiae they are mostly orange-brown with one small white spot.
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Post by mothman27 on Sept 30, 2017 5:01:46 GMT -8
What is the habitat type of cerina? See: mnfi.anr.msu.edu/explorer/species.cfm?id=11962If you are looking for them I would look for an area where there are obvious mayapples. Before I found it here I had seen the mayapples. From what I have heard, Papaipema don't fly far from their hosts (Not sure how far that means). There is a small vernal pool in the low part of the property and this is adjoined to a small woods where I have found the Mayapples.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Sept 30, 2017 16:02:08 GMT -8
I will check out the Papaipema birdi/insulidens with Eric Quenter. I have collected Papaipema birdi here in Kentucky and have specimens of Papaipema insulidens from BC, Canada.
When I lived in Watseka, IL, I found Papaipema cerina in a number of places. A gorgeous species. I also found Papaipema eryngii in a number of odd places. While living in Watseka in 2006, a volcano blew its top in SE Asia and there was to be some spectacular sun sets. We drove over to Crescent City west of Watseka which is on a ridge line. The spot we chose was at the cross roads of US24 & SR49. On the NE corner was an old PURE Gas Station that somebody had cleaned up and painted White. A "For Lease" sign adorned the building. If you remember PURE Gasoline, you are older than dirt! However, as Momma and I waited for the Sun Set I noticed the triangle shape of Noctuid moths on the white walls of the building. With a killing jar and an extension net in hand, I collected seven Papaipema moths. Was not sure of the ID. When we returned home I spread them and they were Papaipema eryngii.
I returned several times and never found them again, although I took several other moths. I even set out light traps more than once. I ventured back about a week later and along the Rail Road Right-of- Way which parrelled US24 to the north. I found Rattle Snake Master, the host plant for Papaipema eryngii, growing in the wet ditches. T
The following Fall I returned to the spot and found everything dead, the Rail Road had sprayed a defoliant. I have never been back since I returned to Kentucky in 2007
Oh yes, the Sun Set was absolutely spectacular!!!!
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Post by leptraps on Sept 30, 2017 16:06:38 GMT -8
I for got to mention that Papaipema eryngii is an endangered species in the State of Illinois.
I think Papaipema cerina is listed as threatened. However, I do not believe that as I found it in numerous locations and it could be abundant.
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Post by mothman27 on Sept 30, 2017 17:50:07 GMT -8
Interesting. That is one of two birdi/insulidens in my collection. I am wondering how you tell P. eryngii and P. nepheleptena apart? It it always done by size? Any ideas on this female's ID?: IN, Whitley Co., 26-Sep-2017, Blacklight, 38mm It doesn't seem to be an easy ID but here are my guesses: P. astuta - Mine seem too large but the spots seem the same P. polymniae - The spots on mine are not very white P. araliae - The spots on mine are not very white
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Post by mothman27 on Oct 1, 2017 8:31:33 GMT -8
Got a male P. cerussata.
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Post by mothman27 on Oct 1, 2017 13:51:52 GMT -8
I for got to mention that Papaipema eryngii is an endangered species in the State of Illinois. I think Papaipema cerina is listed as threatened. However, I do not believe that as I found it in numerous locations and it could be abundant. Do you think P. nepheleptena is less common than P. cerina?
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Oct 1, 2017 16:27:04 GMT -8
Your big female looks like a Papaipema arctivorens.
Papaipema eryngii is much larger than and darker red than Papaipema nepheleptena. And, Papaipema eryngii is closely associated with its host plant, Rattle Snake Master (Eryngium aquaticum). I found Rattle Snake Master here I Kentucky, but not the moth. I found it last week near Nashville, Indiana along a small creek. I will set out light traps Tuesday night.
Eric Quenter has not responded to my email, however, it is Papaipema season and he is probably out in the field. I have all six of my light traps out tonight in McCreary County, Kentucky, most in Seeps with Osmunda ferns. Papaipema speciossima is the target.
I will read the Article Papaipema insulidens/birdi. It seems like a stretch to me. Way too many miles between the two species. Unless they did the DNA, and Lafontaine has an in house lab to do the DNA work I believe. You will get my opinion tomorrow AM.
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Post by mothman27 on Oct 2, 2017 3:28:58 GMT -8
I got a female P. cerina today! It has a bald head but otherwise it is perfect. Is there a way to get eggs from her??? I know the eggs overwinter but how would I get her to lay? I also got my first perfect impecuniosa. Thanks, Tim
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Post by leptraps on Oct 2, 2017 5:59:46 GMT -8
Evidently the Host Plant, MayApple is close by. I use potted plants or cuttings. Wrap the end of the plant stems in Paper Towels, soak the paper towels and stuff into a container. Keep the towels moist. The tight fit will keep the female from drowning in water. The female will lay the eggs just above the damp towels. I have used potting soil but I still use a wet paper plug. I keep the eggs out side in a cage under my deck. In early March I move them to potted plants. Out of a 40 eggs, I may get 15 adults.
I used a flash card system for identifying Papaipema and other moths in the field.
The sheets are 8 1/2" X 11" and Laminated back to back. The one on the back is upside down for easy flipping of the sheet. I photographed all the specimens in the Carnegie Museum about 20 years ago. I use themĀ as a quick reference. The laminate keeps the photograph clean and dry. I have these for Schinia, Catocala, Lithophane, Eupsilia and Acronicta. I have a three ring binder in my car with all my flash cards. Any moth I cannot identify comes home regardless. Better safe than sorry.
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Post by mothman27 on Oct 2, 2017 17:15:21 GMT -8
Interesting, thanks for sharing your flashcards. Forgive me for being skeptical but, I have never seen a specimen or photo of a P. arctivorens without white spots. Thanks for the info on rearing them. I know exactly where to find Mayapples in the spring at my house. The problem is that Mayapples die off in late June so there is no way to obtain foliage at this time of year. For now she is in a small brown paper bag.
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Post by mothman27 on Oct 4, 2017 4:00:59 GMT -8
Two nights and no eggs, I am beginning to think I need to find their other foodplant that is used in the first instars, bottlebrush grass ( Hystrix patula) or similar. However, this morning I found 3 perfect P. impecuniosa and a male P. cerina!! this year is outstanding for them.
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Post by rayrard on Oct 4, 2017 20:36:24 GMT -8
still fresh... how late do these fly in the season?
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