jf
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Post by jf on Dec 27, 2018 17:04:33 GMT -8
Next week I'll be collecting specimens in Napo, Ecuador. My main goal is catching some Charaxinae and Morphinae. I've never used bait traps before so I've been wondering what would be the best placement spot for my traps. Also, is there any way to collect Riodinidae with traps? I heard shrimp works
JF
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Post by Paul K on Dec 27, 2018 20:15:19 GMT -8
Next week I'll be collecting specimens in Napo, Ecuador. My main goal is catching some Charaxinae and Morphinae. I've never used bait traps before so I've been wondering what would be the best placement spot for my traps. Also, is there any way to collect Riodinidae with traps? I heard shrimp works JF I never collected Riodininae in fruit bait traps in Laos and Thailand, but they do come to fish sauce, fermented shrimp paste and urine when you place the bait at the stream on sandy or muddy area. Charaxinae come to those too and also to mammals feces. For Morphinae place the bait trap inside forest near the ground but make sure when you hang it so it won’t touch anything as the ants will come to the bait and will ruin also your butterflies. Hanging rope treat with Vaseline or other sticky things mixed with hot chilli powder, the ants will not crawl.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Dec 27, 2018 20:23:36 GMT -8
How many bait traps are you taking with you. Get one high up in the trees. You can place them at varying heights along a trail. Bananas, sugar and water work best. If you use rotting fish, snakes etc, be prepared for a host of flies.
Check your traps about every two hours and keep the number of entrapped insect low which will reduce damage to entrapped Lepidoptera.
Keep your bait juicy. Use water only. Do not use alcohol (Beer, Wine, Whiskey. Moonshine, Bourbon, Liquors, Scotch and just plain Hooch). No Alcohol, period. It will quickly turn to vinegar and render your trap useless.
If the top of your traps are made of screen, make a top from cardboard and set it on the top of your trap. You can place a small stone/rock to hold the card board in place. The card board will provide a dark area for Lepidoptera to hide under.
Be contestant and you should collect lots of specimens. I also understand that many longhorns beetles will visit bait traps.
Just prior to dark, check and empty your traps, juice up the Bait.
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Post by Paul K on Dec 27, 2018 20:51:57 GMT -8
Instead of cardboard I placed on top black plastic bag which besides giving the moths and butterflies a place to hide also keeps away some of the tropical rain which otherwise will wash the bait away. To place the trap high in the trees is a very good idea if only you could some how get the rope there in the first place , I never succeed with this one.
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jf
Junior Member
Posts: 27
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Post by jf on Dec 27, 2018 21:14:13 GMT -8
How many bait traps are you taking with you. Get one high up in the trees. You can place them at varying heights along a trail. Bananas, sugar and water work best. If you use rotting fish, snakes etc, be prepared for a host of flies. Check your traps about every two hours and keep the number of entrapped insect low which will reduce damage to entrapped Lepidoptera. Keep your bait juicy. Use water only. Do not use alcohol (Beer, Wine, Whiskey. Moonshine, Bourbon, Liquors, Scotch and just plain Hooch). No Alcohol, period. It will quickly turn to vinegar and render your trap useless. If the top of your traps are made of screen, make a top from cardboard and set it on the top of your trap. You can place a small stone/rock to hold the card board in place. The card board will provide a dark area for Lepidoptera to hide under. Be contestant and you should collect lots of specimens. I also understand that many longhorns beetles will visit bait traps. Just prior to dark, check and empty your traps, juice up the Bait. I'll be taking 5 traps with me, I have limited space. Should I start preparing the rotten banana recipe and take it with me or should I make it once I'm there?
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jf
Junior Member
Posts: 27
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Post by jf on Dec 27, 2018 21:22:04 GMT -8
Next week I'll be collecting specimens in Napo, Ecuador. My main goal is catching some Charaxinae and Morphinae. I've never used bait traps before so I've been wondering what would be the best placement spot for my traps. Also, is there any way to collect Riodinidae with traps? I heard shrimp works JF I never collected Riodininae in fruit bait traps in Laos and Thailand, but they do come to fish sauce, fermented shrimp paste and urine when you place the bait at the stream on sandy or muddy area. Charaxinae come to those too and also to mammals feces. For Morphinae place the bait trap inside forest near the ground but make sure when you hang it so it won’t touch anything as the ants will come to the bait and will ruin also your butterflies. Hanging rope treat with Vaseline or other sticky things mixed with hot chilli powder, the ants will not crawl. What would be the "perfect mixture" for Charaxinae? I mean, like mixing banana, platain, urine, feces and rotten meat altogether, or is it better to use each bait invidually?
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Post by jhyatt on Dec 28, 2018 6:48:16 GMT -8
Personally, I'd keep different types of bait separated in different traps. If they're fairly close together, it'd make an interesting comparison of results.
I try to place traps at the edge of a clearing or on a forest edge, where there's a bit of direct sunshine on the trap at some part of the day. Traps well into the woods seldom do as well for me as ones of the edge.
Best of luck, jh
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Post by Paul K on Dec 28, 2018 7:56:22 GMT -8
Urine and fish/shrimp sauce I use as a bait for mud puddling butterflies, you will get in 99% males only. I never used those inside the traps so I can’t say how effective they are, but I doubt it. Butterflies are lured to those on the ground as they look for minerals which are usually dissolved at streams, rivers or puddles. Banana bait is the best for inside traps. Leptraps is the best specialist in this subject so you should follow his advices. Both methods will bring you different species.
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Post by alandmor on Dec 28, 2018 8:02:52 GMT -8
Bananas ripen very quickly in the tropics. Find the ripest ones you can and put them in a sealed bag or container for ca. 24 hours and should be good to go. Bringing bait with you usually isn't necessary or a good idea. I've always added some beer to the mix and never had any issues.
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Post by jshuey on Dec 28, 2018 8:10:56 GMT -8
Just prior to dark, check and empty your traps, juice up the Bait. I'll be taking 5 traps with me, I have limited space. Should I start preparing the rotten banana recipe and take it with me or should I make it once I'm there? DO NOT TAKE FERMENTING BAIT WITH YOU!!! I cannot imagine how bad it could go south if some customs guy opens a fermentation-pressurized container and gets sprayed with half rotten fruit bait! We are talking pissed off. I published a tropical fruit bait recipe that I personally love here - www.researchgate.net/publication/267394093_An_optimized_portable_trap_for_quantitative_sampling_of_butterflies. The keys are to make sure you have a packet of fresh yeast with you, use brown cane sugar (not molasses-brown sugar - but the locally produced sugar that has brown impurities in it), and keep your bait constantly "juiced up" with added sugar in the field. You can buy this sugar in many US grocery stores now - or it's the only sugar you will see once you are there. Of course, you buy the over ripe plantains and bananas from roadside vendors. I'm usually in a hurry like you - so I kick start the fermentation as soon as I'm out of the airport by mixing my yeast with a little sugar in water. You never know how long it may take to find fruit, so this this gets the yeast out of their spores and reproducing. I typically have usable bait the next day and it is really hot on day two. Like Leroy says, the key is to keep it going and fresh at all times - so once you set some out in the traps, mix in new ingredients into the leftovers for your next batch. And make sure what you set into the traps is "really wet" - it's that fermenting juice that is so attractive to leps. Add a few pieces of freshly fermented fruit and as much juice as needed each day to keep the traps really hot. And like Leroy says - use nothing but water in your bait. As John Hyatt says, if your traps are high - put them in places where they catch a little sunlight. I like narrow road cuts where the canopy almost closes over the road. One thing worth noting - if you take some of your bait and smear it on tree trunks you may attract a different group of bugs then if all your traps are set high for Memphis and Prepona. For example - in my experience Morpho and Caligo don't like to go high for fruit - they seem to search near the forest floor when hungry. You should play with rotten fish/shrimp for sure. I've done it, but never in the Andes where it really works well. Most of the people I talk to create a spray-able liquid that they spray on low shrubs along stream sides and roadsides. Rios and nymphalids seem to pour into these settings (in the videos at least). From the little bit I have played with this stuff I will warn you - it is terribly stinky and does not wash off your hands or your trap. I've been told that rios and hairstreaks don't enter traps with this - they sit on the outside of the netting - so you have to lower the traps very gently and pluck the bugs off with a jar. Good luck - wish I were going! John Attachments:
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Post by jshuey on Dec 28, 2018 8:19:39 GMT -8
Buy the way - the best way to get traps up high is to take "balls" of cotton string with you. The balls are heavy enough to throw well, they unwind easily - taken together, this gets you over some pretty high branches. I have a bone spur in my shoulder - and I can still get 30-40 feet up. That's another reason why I like to hang traps along dirt roads - retrieving the ball of string is a lot less scary on the dirt road than inside dense brush. And the road gives you plenty of over hanging limbs as targets. Photo of bugs on bait smeared in tree limb
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Post by jhyatt on Dec 28, 2018 15:05:51 GMT -8
Speaking of baiting in the tropics: Has anyone had much success with the saliva-wetted toilet paper blob on leaf surfaces for attracting skippers? It's supposed to imitate a bird dropping and work great, but failed to do anything for me in Costa Rica.
Curious, jh
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Post by LEPMAN on Dec 28, 2018 15:40:36 GMT -8
John, I’m interested to know where or who your traps are from. I think I remember seeing them but don’t remember from where.
As in regards to bait trapping I always preferred using fishing line as ants don’t climb on it (or less likely to) and I would always use a slingshot and a fishing weight to get over the high branches, but I know that some areas in Brasil (I don’t know the situation in Ecuador) the forestry police “polícia ambiental” has a tendency to take them away when they see them (this was when I was much younger not sure how it’s now).
As for the bait you should try looking around the area you will be at to see if there are any fruit trees, in China there are orange trees everywhere and there are ready to use rotting oranges on the ground, these even tend to attract some nice moths that I haven’t been able to catch on the other baits.
I spent a significant portion of my childhood in Brasil and my first butterfly I collected was actually from Brasil. There are many banana plantations and citrus plantations (watch out for the oranges called “naranja serra d’água” as they tend to be terrible for bait) and there were also many dropped fruit. If you resort to collecting fruits I would suggest you go in the rural areas and collect some mangoes from the local mango trees, there will be many on the ground. the locals may tell you they’re “bichada” as they are oftentimes crawling with maggots but they are fantastic tasting if you get one from the tree maggots and all, they also make fantastic bait(my go to bait). Just try not to eat all of your bait!
Note of caution, watch out for the snakes as most snakes you will encounter in the tropics are suit to sending you to the ground. They are especially prevalent in the fruit areas looking for the mice enjoying the fruit. When I was a kid (under 15) we had some leather chainsaw pants that we’d wear as snake protection. Keep in mind snakes also frequent trees!
When I collected in Brasil (usually summer only) I would usually just set a pile of fruit in the areas and I’d do a morning and afternoon walk and catch any specimens, then I’d spend a good portion of my night catching moths beetles etc at the porch light.
Of course these are my experiences in Brasil, I’m sure there will be some differences in Ecuador, but one tip would be if you don’t have much success in the forested areas try going in the rural areas and asking a local to watch your trap, you can also take this opportunity to ask for bait and where the best butterfly spots are. Most of the locals are very friendly and won’t hesitate to help you, I’ve found some of my best butterfly honey holes by asking locals,one key example would be on my visit to Cambodia when some locals a little younger than me saw me catching butterflies and invited me to a area where I encountered many butterflies, it was a long walk to the spot but it was worth it in the end, they also used my back up net to help me catch.
Some experiences you leave with when you originally came just for butterflies are just amazing, so be open to the side trips and journeys you may encounter but trust your gut if you think something is wrong and be careful.
Espero tengas una experiencia maravillosa con muchas mariposas!
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Post by LEPMAN on Dec 28, 2018 15:42:51 GMT -8
Speaking of baiting in the tropics: Has anyone had much success with the saliva-wetted toilet paper blob on leaf surfaces for attracting skippers? It's supposed to imitate a bird dropping and work great, but failed to do anything for me in Costa Rica. Curious, jh I’ve also heard of this trick but am not too interested in skippers. Would be interesting to hear from any that have had success with this trick!
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Post by jshuey on Dec 28, 2018 16:35:46 GMT -8
John, I’m interested to know where or who your traps are from. I think I remember seeing them but don’t remember from where. These are the same traps that BioQuip sells at www.bioquip.com/search/DispProduct.asp?pid=1422. But with modifications. I purchased mine from a manufacturer in China - much better price for a dozen traps. You'll have to track them down yourself, but if I could do it it must not be that hard. They are modified as follows. 1 - the top hanger cord was replaced with monofiliment fish line to help keep ants out. I've never had a problem with ants unless the trap was touching leaves. 2 - I created a round rain shield out of light weight acetate and used self adhesive velcro to attach it to the top netting of the trap once it is expanded. If you don't do this, the bait fills up with rain and dilutes the bait. So you can leave the traps out all day without the bait going dead during the nightly downpour 3 - Most importantly, the inner cone is totally inappropriate for large butterflies, so I cut it about halfway down. I made a ring-support out of the largest zip ties I could find, sewed them into the cut off cone, and then of course, re-hung the cone. This creates an opening that is 7-8 inches and allows even the largest butterflies to fly into the trap, but still keeps them in the trap when you lower it. This new ring deforms a little when you collapse the trap back into the little "suitcase" thing the traps twist back into for travel. I love them because they are so small and light. I've used them for for about 8 years in Belize, southern Brazil, Mexico, Caribbean islands and Guatemala. They are still like new. My wife hates all the gear I take on vacations - but she never notices three of four of these trap in my suitcase. john
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