|
|
Post by jshuey on Oct 12, 2020 6:03:15 GMT -8
I saw some program about the suggestion of the monolith type storage facility and the issue of being understood. I know we aren't going to launch nuclear waste, it was kind of a lighthearted attempt at ludicrous humor to a real issue. Burying things that have reached their usefulness is the easy way out.. Power generation is a formidable topic,even here in Oregon, most of our power is Hydro, and there are problems with that. I don't see solar or wind as ever becoming viable for a country as large as the USA. It's a rainy sunday here. Sorry! Launching the waste was an option that was really evaluated by DOE! And you still hear people talk about it seriously. So I'm probably a bit touchy about it! Here in Indiana, one of the state governments that aggressively protects the coal industry, two regional power companies have committed to become 100% renewable in about 15-20 years. Both have aged coal plants that have to be replaced, and solar and wind in combination with storage are cheaper options. Both are taking first steps by building new transmission lines to feed power from wind fields and are building their own wind farms. Solar is also in the works, but here in farm country there is a lot pf resistance to converting a few thousand acres of row crop to solar. (and note that they have looked at urban roof-top, but the limiting factor is finding enough roof-tops that can support solar panels). Storage lags a bit behind, and as long as they have their old plants on-line, they can wait out technological advances for a few years. One of the issues that I can't understand, is why you can't elevate the panels and run mild grazing animals under them - aka sheep. The solar developers simply want nothing outside their control happening under those panels - frustrating to me. FYI - One of my roles at work is working with utilities as they make this transition. We developed a set of siting guidelines to use for wind, such that ecologically sensitive areas can be avoided (https://www.nature.org/en-us/what-we-do/our-priorities/tackle-climate-change/climate-change-stories/site-wind-right/) and I've been working with Purdue University Extension to develop guidelines for native pollinator friendly plantings under solar farms. Their first drafts were all about honey bees and red clover. Now we've included an ok mix of native species that could actually support common leps as hostplants and nectar sources. And today, a national holiday in the US (Indigenous American Day here at my PC employer - who happens to have a staff that includes lots of indigenous Americans across western and Latin America), I will send out a proposal to a wind developer to provide bat conservation that offsets the mortality caused from turbine strikes. John |
|
|
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Oct 12, 2020 6:50:16 GMT -8
One of the issues that I can't understand, is why you can't elevate the panels and run mild grazing animals under them - aka sheep. The solar developers simply want nothing outside their control happening under those panels - frustrating to me. Solar panels are brittle. When having no proper support they can damage easily. Wind will make them wobble due to sheering forces. That's why I think it will not work well. |
|
|
|
Post by kevinkk on Oct 12, 2020 8:34:59 GMT -8
Ok, then. I am not surprised that launching nuclear waste was looked at, the government comes up with a variety of ideas...
Solar panels- they will take up a lot of space, and a roof being a "No brainer" think again.
Besides the structural issues, as a tradesperson, most of my work for 30 years has been roofing. Try putting a new roof
on a house with solar panels. Without forethought, which is the case about 99.999% of the time, it's a liability, and typically
the home owner simply trashed the panels, now maybe they'd be more efficient nowadays. But every good idea has some issue that we
don't find out about until later.
|
|
|
|
Post by 58chevy on Oct 12, 2020 15:57:51 GMT -8
Another energy source that received attention in the '70s &'80s is solar power satellites. They would collect energy from the sun 24/7 and beam it to earth via microwaves. Collecting stations on the ground would convert the microwaves to electrical energy and distribute it through the grid. There would be no pollution, no threats to wildlife (except directly under the microwave beam) and no byproducts to dispose of. I'm surprised that this technology hasn't been developed. There were some technical challenges back then and the satellites would have been very expensive, but the benefits would be enormous. If one or two satellites were launched over each continent, nobody on earth would be without power. And nobody would be starving.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevinkk on Oct 12, 2020 16:21:41 GMT -8
Another energy source that received attention in the '70s &'80s is solar power satellites. They would collect energy from the sun 24/7 and beam it to earth via microwaves. Collecting stations on the ground would convert the microwaves to electrical energy and distribute it through the grid. There would be no pollution, no threats to wildlife (except directly under the microwave beam) and no byproducts to dispose of. I'm surprised that this technology hasn't been developed. There were some technical challenges back then and the satellites would have been very expensive, but the benefits would be enormous. If one or two satellites were launched over each continent, nobody on earth would be without power. And nobody would be starving. Interesting, but I see it fraught with problems having microwave beams that would probably pose issues with aircraft as well as wildlife. But- there you go. Throwing out ideas is the way to get things done. One time at work we were arguing in the office, and this one person chimed in "I've never made a bad call at work". My response- "that's because you never make any decisions". End of argument. It's been a slow day here, except for forgetting to log in an entry in my checkbook and freaking out about fraud, arguing with city officials about Columbus Day aka Indigenous People's Day. Any one that wants to hear about that can ask. You might regret it. The short version- Oregon apparently decided in 2019 to give the knee high boot to Columbus, but there's more to the issue in my neighborhood. |
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Oct 12, 2020 19:49:09 GMT -8
The microwaves/lasers used to transport the energy will not be an issue.
The issue is the economic cost. On Wikipedia they explain that a transport cost of $200 per kg to space is needed. SpaceX has brought that cost from $54000 kg to $2700 per kg. We need a company that can operate 10 times cheaper than SpaceX to make it work.
I hope that the further development of AI will make a few of these things economically feasible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Oct 13, 2020 1:46:44 GMT -8
Another interesting question is : what will happen when our species will have access to free infinite non-polluting energy. Of course the human-related global warming issue would be solved (which will be a great news).... But with infinite free energy, we would be stupid enough to use it to destroy even more our ecosystems, for money, for war and so on. Homo sapiens is a parasite species, my friends.  We will disappear with the death of our host... : nature. |
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Oct 13, 2020 4:06:22 GMT -8
But every good idea has some issue that we don't find out about until later. WE being the general population, or in corporate, the team members. There is a problem that's gone way overboard, and that is group think. Some twit comes up with a good idea, and everyone is supposed to jump on board. Anyone who questions the idea or even suggests vetting is labeled as a non-team member. So anyone who wants to keep their job shuts their mouth. Meanwhile, it seems the more vague, more outlandish, and the greater the promise of profit, the more the idea is embraced by managing decision makers. In the commercial world, the sales guys then get the blame when this great idea won't sell. Where we now see recurring stupidity in the commercial world is decisions made by bean counters rather than engineers et. al. They pat themselves on the back for saving tons of money, put it on their resume; that it comes out five years later that the cheap solution is deficient doesn't matter, since the accountant and the managers have jumped ship. This problem certainly exists in the government world. And, though there are clinical trials and such with medicine, there are plenty of instances where known issues were, at best, sort of ignored. And, then there is the science world, which suffers the same problem- naysayers and critical thinkers are ostracized, fired, and sometimes even prosecuted! I've always invited everyone to play devil's advocate for my ideas. I WANT people to suggest potential flaws with my strategies and ideas. I'd much rather know early on than after wasting thousands of hours in development. It's not personal, and even if it is, if the adversary is right, they are right...still working to my benefit. Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Oct 13, 2020 4:09:38 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Oct 13, 2020 4:29:46 GMT -8
... solar power satellites. They would collect energy from the sun 24/7 and beam it to earth via microwaves. Collecting stations on the ground would convert the microwaves to electrical energy ... one or two satellites were launched over each continent, I just can't imagine that THIS would be weaponized! (laugh laugh) Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by jshuey on Oct 13, 2020 4:40:21 GMT -8
Irony - These facilities, because they can eat up 3-4,000 acres, raise issues huge for rural populations. My little community has two facilities planned, and I see "Stop Industrial Solar" signs all though the country roads. I wonder if they should be followed by signs that read, "Support climate change"? These are the trade-offs facing both wind and solar (and new coal and nuclear as well - NIMBY is a real thing for all these). You see the local impact, but not the global benefit... Back to solar on roofs, urban centers with lots of flat, industrial roofs are the ideal locations. Distribution distance to the consumer is minimized and panels can help keep the buildings cooler in summer. But even the LEEDS Certified Office that we built a few years ago at work, did not anticipate the need for supporting solar panels in addition to the green roof. But I think we are going to add them to our parking lot... - another great place for these. john |
|
