Post by thanos on Apr 26, 2011 16:34:07 GMT -8
Hi Simon,
I consider that the differences in these wing characters which O.Schaffler mentions are very minor,and that it is quite unsafe for someone to be based on such slight differences for concluding that we have to do with different subspecies.In many cases,there are more major and not uncommon differences between the individuals inside the populations of a single subspecies(example: a huge variation in the size and colour of the hindwing ocelli of Parnassius apollo graecus inside single populations here in Greece). And also, for maramasikensis and reginae,as you said,Small Malaita is separated from Malaita by just a small stretch of water( geographically isolated populations ??).
Just my opinion.
'Yes it is way different from reginae...'
-I can't see this..John,could you please post also in this thread a male specimen of reginae(or your females maramasikensis and reginae) and show us the 'way difference' ?
Regards,
Thanos
PS: And before someone say something about my belief that P.chikae and P.hermeli are different species,I find,plus to the fact that they are found in different habitats on different islands(hermeli on N.Mindoro,chikae N.Luzon,and chikae prefers forests above 1500m.altitude),that they are quite different: in wing shape: much more spatulated tails on chikae,more sharp and curved hindwing anal angle(space S1) on hermeli.Also,much more white scales on the undersides of the forewings of hermeli,and more red on the hindwings of both sexes of hermeli(especially in the female).Again it's just my opinion,based on the above -for me not minor- differences,and I don't exclude the possibility that further DNA studies will maybe show that they are conspecific(maybe -although not my opinion at least at the moment- they are subspecies and hermeli is the extension of chikae to second Philippine island.They are Ok with the criterion of isolated populations for the subspecies).Below I have a photo of undersides of males chikae and hermeli from my collection.
I consider that the differences in these wing characters which O.Schaffler mentions are very minor,and that it is quite unsafe for someone to be based on such slight differences for concluding that we have to do with different subspecies.In many cases,there are more major and not uncommon differences between the individuals inside the populations of a single subspecies(example: a huge variation in the size and colour of the hindwing ocelli of Parnassius apollo graecus inside single populations here in Greece). And also, for maramasikensis and reginae,as you said,Small Malaita is separated from Malaita by just a small stretch of water( geographically isolated populations ??).
Just my opinion.
'Yes it is way different from reginae...'
-I can't see this..John,could you please post also in this thread a male specimen of reginae(or your females maramasikensis and reginae) and show us the 'way difference' ?
Regards,
Thanos
PS: And before someone say something about my belief that P.chikae and P.hermeli are different species,I find,plus to the fact that they are found in different habitats on different islands(hermeli on N.Mindoro,chikae N.Luzon,and chikae prefers forests above 1500m.altitude),that they are quite different: in wing shape: much more spatulated tails on chikae,more sharp and curved hindwing anal angle(space S1) on hermeli.Also,much more white scales on the undersides of the forewings of hermeli,and more red on the hindwings of both sexes of hermeli(especially in the female).Again it's just my opinion,based on the above -for me not minor- differences,and I don't exclude the possibility that further DNA studies will maybe show that they are conspecific(maybe -although not my opinion at least at the moment- they are subspecies and hermeli is the extension of chikae to second Philippine island.They are Ok with the criterion of isolated populations for the subspecies).Below I have a photo of undersides of males chikae and hermeli from my collection.
