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Post by livingplanet3 on Jun 12, 2021 7:42:34 GMT -8
I found about 10 half-grown Pipevine Swallowtail ( Battus philenor) caterpillars this morning on some Aristolochia durior here on my property - will try rearing them. Knowing the toxicity of Aristolochia, should I probably be wearing gloves when handling it? It seems I read somewhere that, although the main danger from this plant would be through ingestion, the leaves have apparently caused contact dermatitis in some people. I've always worn gloves when handling milkweed (for rearing monarchs), because of its irritating sap - maybe I should also do so with Aristolochia? |
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Post by livingplanet3 on Jun 14, 2021 14:08:10 GMT -8
I'm amazed at how much the Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillars have increased in size in just the past couple of days - I didn't think it would be quite this fast! Most of my experience in rearing Lepidoptera is with Saturniidae. Growth rates for saturniid caterpillars are impressive, but I've never seen anything increase so quickly as these swallowtail larvae have.
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Post by eurytides on Jun 14, 2021 15:28:23 GMT -8
When I raised them at 25-26C, they would go though an instar every days.
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Post by livingplanet3 on Jun 14, 2021 15:43:30 GMT -8
When I raised them at 25-26C, they would go though an instar every days. Mine are reaching as high as 34 C in the afternoon (I'm rearing them outdoors). The humidity is also very high right now. |
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Post by livingplanet3 on Jun 16, 2021 18:33:01 GMT -8
As of this evening, one of the caterpillars has already become a chrysalis, and a couple of others are in the pre-chrysalis stage. I didn't anticipate that they would do so this soon, as they didn't grow to as large a size as expected. I wonder if keeping them so warm not only speeded up their growth, but also led to premature pupation, and therefore they didn't reach their full growth potential? I've seen a rather wide variation in adult size (in both males and females) in this species in the wild, though.
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Post by bobw on Jun 16, 2021 23:43:15 GMT -8
Most species will pupate early and smaller if kept at high temperatures (this also applies in the wild). Cool and slow is the way if you want bigger specimens.
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Post by Crake on Jun 17, 2021 9:36:45 GMT -8
As of this evening, one of the caterpillars has already become a chrysalis, and a couple of others are in the pre-chrysalis stage. I didn't anticipate that they would do so this soon, as they didn't grow to as large a size as expected. I wonder if keeping them so warm not only speeded up their growth, but also led to premature pupation, and therefore they didn't reach their full growth potential? I've seen a rather wide variation in adult size (in both males and females) in this species in the wild, though. You might want to try separating chrysalises from active larvae shortly after pupation. I've just finished rearing 16 B. philenor hirsuta, and the last remaining pair of larvae cannibalized 3 pupae. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 17, 2021 9:46:03 GMT -8
This can be a problem with some Troidini. The same often happens with Pachliopta aristolochiae here. Larvae particularly like to eat pupae that are still soft, especially if the quality and quantity of food plant is not ideal.
Adam.
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Post by livingplanet3 on Jun 17, 2021 11:31:22 GMT -8
Most species will pupate early and smaller if kept at high temperatures (this also applies in the wild). Cool and slow is the way if you want bigger specimens. You might want to try separating chrysalises from active larvae shortly after pupation. I've just finished rearing 16 B. philenor hirsuta, and the last remaining pair of larvae cannibalized 3 pupae. This can be a problem with some Troidini. The same often happens with Pachliopta aristolochiae here. Larvae particularly like to eat pupae that are still soft, especially if the quality and quantity of food plant is not ideal. Adam. Many thanks to all for the advice. I've just found two more quite young B. philenor larvae, and this time, I will rear them in the house, where the temperature remains at about 25 C (9 C lower than the previous group was kept at). Regarding Aristolochia, is it largely safe to handle? I've seen numerous references that make mention of aristolochic acid's toxicity to kidneys, as well as its carcinogenic and mutagenic properties, and even its potential as a soil contaminant, but literature regarding any risks from skin contact seem quite scant. I get the impression, that this plant is only truly dangerous if ingested. Thoughts? |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jun 17, 2021 12:52:36 GMT -8
Living in both Florida and Kentucky I grew Aristolochia, both the Kentucky and the Florida natives.
I handle Pipevine (Aristolochia) numerous time and never had a negative reaction. While living in South Florida I grew Aristolochia in my yard. I always had Battus polydamus larva chewing on it. I also had the larva of a couple of sphinx moths chewing on it at one time or another.
I truly enjoyed my time in South Florida. I was always raising something. One of my favorite butterflies to raise was Marpesia petrius. I also reared a few exoitics courtesy off a friend.
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Post by exoticimports on Jun 17, 2021 13:31:00 GMT -8
I’ve handled the plant in South Pacific with no effects.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 17, 2021 14:07:23 GMT -8
I think aristolochic acid is only dangerous if eaten, or mixed in a drink, such as might be made for traditional Chinese medicinal purposes. I have never had any problems handling Aristolochia plants.
Obviously if you are concerned then it would be better to wear gloves for peace of mind if nothing else.
Adam.
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Post by wingedwishes on Jun 18, 2021 4:42:17 GMT -8
I've grown this plant. It rockets along. Do keep from rubbing eyes after handling. We can often forget that gloves can transfer toxins to the face. As an anecdote: A wildlife officer I knew picked up a cane toad (Bufo) and put it in a cage. He took off his gloves. One glove touched the palmof his hand. He took a break and lit a cigarette. His lips went numb and he could not feel his jaw for a couple of hours. The good thing is that he stopped smoking.....
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Post by livingplanet3 on Jun 18, 2021 7:18:06 GMT -8
Living in both Florida and Kentucky I grew Aristolochia, both the Kentucky and the Florida natives. I handle Pipevine (Aristolochia) numerous time and never had a negative reaction. While living in South Florida I grew Aristolochia in my yard. I always had Battus polydamus larva chewing on it. I also had the larva of a couple of sphinx moths chewing on it at one time or another. I truly enjoyed my time in South Florida. I was always raising something. One of my favorite butterflies to raise was Marpesia petrius. I also reared a few exoitics courtesy off a friend. I’ve handled the plant in South Pacific with no effects. I think aristolochic acid is only dangerous if eaten, or mixed in a drink, such as might be made for traditional Chinese medicinal purposes. I have never had any problems handling Aristolochia plants. Obviously if you are concerned then it would be better to wear gloves for peace of mind if nothing else. Adam. I've grown this plant. It rockets along. Do keep from rubbing eyes after handling. We can often forget that gloves can transfer toxins to the face. As an anecdote: A wildlife officer I knew picked up a cane toad (Bufo) and put it in a cage. He took off his gloves. One glove touched the palmof his hand. He took a break and lit a cigarette. His lips went numb and he could not feel his jaw for a couple of hours. The good thing is that he stopped smoking..... Thanks again for the input. I'll probably just play it safe and keep on wearing gloves whenever handling the plant. Sounds like that cane toad incident ultimately did a lot more good than harm! Decades ago, a colleague of mine (who I believe was living in Brisbane at the time) fared much worse in a cane toad encounter - was sprayed right in the eyes point blank; he said the pain was excruciating. Fortunately, the effect was only temporary, with no lasting damage. |
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Post by Crake on Jun 18, 2021 8:24:54 GMT -8
Most species will pupate early and smaller if kept at high temperatures (this also applies in the wild). Cool and slow is the way if you want bigger specimens. You might want to try separating chrysalises from active larvae shortly after pupation. I've just finished rearing 16 B. philenor hirsuta, and the last remaining pair of larvae cannibalized 3 pupae. This can be a problem with some Troidini. The same often happens with Pachliopta aristolochiae here. Larvae particularly like to eat pupae that are still soft, especially if the quality and quantity of food plant is not ideal. Adam. Many thanks to all for the advice. I've just found two more quite young B. philenor larvae, and this time, I will rear them in the house, where the temperature remains at about 25 C (9 C lower than the previous group was kept at). Regarding Aristolochia, is it largely safe to handle? I've seen numerous references that make mention of aristolochic acid's toxicity to kidneys, as well as its carcinogenic and mutagenic properties, and even its potential as a soil contaminant, but literature regarding any risks from skin contact seem quite scant. I get the impression, that this plant is only truly dangerous if ingested. Thoughts? I actually developed a rash after handling some Aristolochia taliscana in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. I suppose the concentration of acids may have been greater in that species as with A. gigantea. |
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