|
|
Post by mothboy on Sept 20, 2021 19:20:50 GMT -8
Hi!! ^^ I’m relatively new to keeping moths, a few weeks or so  At the moment I have 4 chrysalis’s I’m taking care of! I like to take the chrysalis out of the dropped caterpillar hair so I can track their progress/how dark the chrysalis is etc. I have them in an aired container, until my mesh home for them arrives. Is this okay? I’m worried that they won’t hatch, although all of them appear completely fine. Is this okay? Thank you!! |
|
|
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Sept 21, 2021 0:53:08 GMT -8
You can try with one of them, but I would disadvise as the cocoon (outer silk shell) is meant to protect the pupa and it helps in regulating moisture which is important for the pupa to develop.
A compromise is to cut a small hole into the cocoon and watch through that.
Edit: I see that you already removed the cocoon. So there isn't much we can do now other than watch.
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 21, 2021 4:12:19 GMT -8
I assume that you are in a temperate country, and if so it is likely that your moth pupae have gone into diapause, so will probably not naturally emerge until spring or next summer. If you keep them in your house at room temperature they will probably dry out and die of dessication due to the heating system, even if you spray them regularly, but also their diapause will be disrupted by the unnatural temperature. They will either emerge in mid winter as a result, or not emerge at all.
There are two recommended alternatives, either put them in a cage (you said you have ordered one) in a cool building such as a garage or garden shed so they can receive natural temperatures over the winter; or alternatively put them in an airtight plastic box and put it in the veggie compartment of your fridge when the weather starts to get cool (less than 10C) and keep them in the sealed box until spring time. After you take them out of the fridge in spring (only after the temperature is regularly warm outside) you can put them in the net cage and observe them until they hatch. Whichever method you use you should keep them inside their cocoons. It really is not good for them to be removed regularly.
Adam.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevinkk on Sept 21, 2021 9:07:27 GMT -8
I see Adam mentioned an airtight box, I'm not so sure about that, I've always used a container with air holes in the veggie crisper, and will keep
a moist sponge in an uncovered container in for humidity.
I've always wondered exactly how much air pupa need to breathe, I'm just assuming they must breathe?? Even a cocoon allows some air, and I'd
guess air can reach a pupa underground as well. I'd be interested in hearing other opinions about the need for pupa to breathe.
Removing pupa from a cocoon- sometimes it's a big deal, other times it isn't, it depends on the species. Some species won't survive being opened,
and some spin such flimsy cocoons, it's nearly impossible to keep them intact.
If your animals are from a temperate habitat, they will need a diapause, usually 10-12 weeks of cold/winter type temps. Tropicals just need a rest
period, but can be affected by moisture, as in a wet or dry season.
|
|
|
|
Post by mothman55 on Sept 22, 2021 10:16:55 GMT -8
On keeping moth pupae in the fridge over the winter in sealed or unsealed container, last season I tried both methods on luna cocoons. I put half a dozen in an airtight tupperware and another half dozen in an open top container. Turns out it didn't matter sealed or unsealed, they all emerged from both methods. I did spritz the unsealed ones with a bit of water about once a month. For the sealed container I put one small squirt of water onto a paper towel so there would be a bit of moisture, but not too much.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevinkk on Sept 22, 2021 19:06:21 GMT -8
I assume if pupa breathe, they don't need much air in any case. Many tropical Saturniidae spin open weave cocoons to presumably drain
water- so they must be able to drown, or maybe that's just mold prevention ?
So, at least now we, or maybe just me, know that you don't need air holes for your diapaused material. In any event, I'll still err on the side
of caution and keep things as natural as possible...in the fridge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 23, 2021 0:34:07 GMT -8
I have always put diapause pupae in sealed small plastic boxes in the fridge. Depending on the fridge, if the box is not sealed the pupae may dessicate enough to affect emergence, if not kill them.
Pupae use a tiny amount of oxygen, and even if the sealed box is full of pupae there are no problems.
Adam.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Sept 23, 2021 6:03:46 GMT -8
I have always put diapause pupae in sealed small plastic boxes in the fridge. Depending on the fridge, if the box is not sealed the pupae may dessicate enough to affect emergence, if not kill them. Pupae use a tiny amount of oxygen, and even if the sealed box is full of pupae there are no problems. Adam. Interesting. Can we explore this more? In my area of NE USA, dipause may be up to 10 months. Winters may reach -18C, usually hovering about -5C for January/February, broken every couple months with a quick warming to +8C or so, and rain. I've kept my pupae, and cocoons, in tupperware in the unheated garage, where mice can't get to them. I always put holes in the tupperware to allow them to breathe, and I suppose for some minimal air circulation. Adam, you don't say what type of pupae or for how long. I can understand a minimal requirement for oxygen for pupae for two months, not unlike bringing aquarium fish home in a bag. But for ten months? And in a refrigerator with very low, very steadily low, humidity? Appreciate your insights. Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Sept 23, 2021 7:56:04 GMT -8
I kept last winter 50 Cecropia cocoons packed full inside plastic box for 6 months in the fridge ( not in vegetable compartment as the box was too large to fit there). I did not open it or spray the whole time.
They all emerged last spring perfectly fine.
I suppose that when in diapause all living processes are slowed/paused to the point that indeed the pupa doesn’t brief or if so it is very limited.
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 23, 2021 9:06:10 GMT -8
exoticinsects wrote "Adam, you don't say what type of pupae or for how long. I can understand a minimal requirement for oxygen for pupae for two months, not unlike bringing aquarium fish home in a bag. But for ten months? And in a refrigerator with very low, very steadily low, humidity?" I kept a number of diapausing Papilio species in small sealed boxes in the veggie compartment at about 5C for maybe 4 months, long enough to break diapause when brought out into the warmth. Sometimes the pupae pretty much filled the boxes without any detriment to the pupae. I think that during diapause pupae need almost no oxygen. It is only after diapause is broken by warmer temperatures that they will start to use more oxygen for metabolism as they develop. It is worth noting that diapausing pupae can survive temperatures as low as -40C in colder regions of the world, but they cannot survive dessication. Adam.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Sept 23, 2021 9:06:20 GMT -8
Great data point, Paul. Thanks, Chuck
|
|
