jade
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Post by jade on May 9, 2011 16:38:43 GMT -8
 Here is another one, it thinks its a Morpho
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vwman
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Post by vwman on May 9, 2011 16:57:35 GMT -8
I think this is just a mutation of scaling that may cause a shift in the color spectrum at certain angles, but I don't think it's a gynandromorph. That's not to say it's not an interesting specimen. It's very cool.
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jade
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Post by jade on May 9, 2011 18:20:30 GMT -8
The shape and physical structure of male Ornithoptera scales are different tothe female scales- this specimen is a standard female with an overlay , fairly widely dispersed of male scales , that's why I THINK IT IS A GYNANDRORPH.
if it only had female scales then no it wouldn't be as the females that have purple sheen to wings.
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vwman
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Post by vwman on May 9, 2011 18:34:30 GMT -8
Do you have some kind of scientific paper on this or photographic evidence at the microscopic level or is it just your opinion from a standard observation? I'm not trying to interrogate you, but this would be very interesting if you had some kind of photographic comparison. Typically gynandromorphs are bilateral or mosaic. This specimen's trait is very uniform more indicative of a mutation rather than a gynandromorph. Very much like a O. priamus form kirschi where the female shows male scaling, but in my belief it is just a gene expression not necessarily a sex linked trait in the truer sense of gynandromorphism in the metamorphic stage. The reason I'm interested is this is a subject that has been debated before.
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Post by nomihoudai on May 9, 2011 21:13:23 GMT -8
We have discussed this multiple times. A gynandromorph is NOT a MIX of male and female within the same wingparts, but it has very distinct sections that are EITHER male OR female. The definition of the term should be clear when you read the scientific explanation and the explanation of the effect that comes into play.
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vwman
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Post by vwman on May 9, 2011 21:21:58 GMT -8
Claude,
Yes, you and I understand this, but others may not. This is why I am trying to make the point without trying too be derisive about it.
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Post by nomihoudai on May 9, 2011 21:35:30 GMT -8
I'm sorry if I sounded derisive but my mother just destroyed my new Societas Europaea Lepidopterologica membership card that I just got 8 hours ago =( ...and when it comes down to the term "gynandromorph" it sometimes feels like talking to walls and that people make scientific terms up in their mind as they want to, but that you can't do with science.
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Post by fred2802 on May 9, 2011 23:58:42 GMT -8
This is absolutely not a gynandromorph.
An extreme variation of the form purpurea that is not very rare in aesacus.
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Post by Chris Grinter on May 10, 2011 2:20:53 GMT -8
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Post by simosg on May 10, 2011 10:55:08 GMT -8
Yes, this is the female form purpurea.
Hannes
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Post by paulbodnar1 on May 10, 2011 17:53:23 GMT -8
Greetings All,
Very nice specimen of a female (O. aesacus). Out of the several females I have in my collection three have this type of purple-blue sheen (described as form purpurea). One of these females has an incredible amount of iridescence (also known as goniochromism), and it looks like a female Ornithoptera crossed with a male Morpho butterfly on all four wings! Another female only shows the color on the hindwings and the third female shows just a faint hint of color under light.
I am not sure if this trait is genetic or foodplant related (larva will feed on two or three types of vines). If you search the older forum on (O. aesacus) one can see some of the pictures showing the sheen.
I also notice in female (O. aesacus) the dark base color can vary from almost blackish-brown to a medium-brown.
Truly,
Paul Bodnar
Crocodile Wildlife Conservationist
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 19:41:37 GMT -8
I knew Paul's "O. aesacus radar" would fine this thread  |
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Post by lordpandarus on May 31, 2011 15:13:46 GMT -8
grease stain?
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Post by paulbodnar1 on Jun 7, 2011 11:47:24 GMT -8
Lordpandarus,
This is a described form "purpurea" and not a grease stain.
The sheen is variable in color and is a natural occurrence found in some (Ornithoptera aesacus) females. In my collection, about 1 in 10 has the sheen, blueish and/or purple.
People visiting Obi have also recorded this in wild females flying on the Island and a wild purple female (O. aesacus) are mentioned/photographed in the book written by Matsuka: "Natural History of Birdwing Butterflies".
Truly,
Paul Bodnar
Crocodile Wildlife Conservationist
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