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Post by coloradeo on Apr 29, 2022 9:17:40 GMT -8
For years I have followed the articles about LED lights and the best black lights wondering if we’d ever get LEDs as good as the Quantum 368nm tubes that I think people generally agree are the best. I think the 365nm tubes are almost as good as the 368s. Certainly MV is the other dog in the hunt… I saw this LED on Amazon that advertises it’s a 365nm 100w Blacklight. It says (if you select the 365, not the 395) that it produces UV-A, which I think is the hangup on whether these are actually good for moths. The distance the UV-A travels from the light seems to be the important factor, and I’m not sure I’ll know that. I am thinking about getting one to try it out, but I don’t have a UV Meter, so I’m not sure I can have a science based answer to whether these are any good. Anyone with better knowledge want to weigh in as to whether I’ve overlooked something? www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0863HD955/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1Eric |
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Post by 58chevy on Apr 29, 2022 10:17:42 GMT -8
Leroy Koehn (Leptraps) tested UV LED bulbs (not sure if the wavelength was 365 or 368nm) several years ago with a UV-sensitive light meter. His conclusion: the UV intensity drops off abruptly a short distance from the bulb, making it ineffective at attracting moths. I use the Quantum 368 bulbs (non-LED) with pretty good results. However, MV bulbs outperform the Quantum bulbs by a wide margin. The higher the wattage, the better. My light rig has three Quantum 368 bulbs in combination with a 400W MV bulb. Some people use 1000W MV bulbs with fantastic results. If you want to get the maximum number of bugs and the most species, MV is way to go. LED Quantum bulbs are a waste of money in my opinion, but I haven't tried them. Leroy's study is probably somewhere in the Insectnet archives.
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Post by kmhcloseups on Apr 29, 2022 10:51:14 GMT -8
Leroy may once have been a credible source, but he was not honest with me in a recent business deal and I know I'm not the only one. But taking him out of the equation, do you suppose anyone else in the business of selling moth traps with only Quantum units on offer is going to tell you if the LEDs are equal to or better? There is a conflict of interest there for certain. To know for sure, I would want to have that information from an honest individual without any skin in the game.
I don't know if LED technology is up to the task yet, but I did order a few units from EntoSphinx to try out. I'll have an idea after some time running them this coming season. I do like that they can be run on much more portable lithium ion batteries and that they are watertight. It's something I maybe wouldn't have done if my Leptraps Quantum unit hadn't been a piece of junk.
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Post by Chris Grinter on Apr 29, 2022 12:15:23 GMT -8
I can attest the LepiLED by Gunnar Brehm preforms at roughly the same level as a mercury vapor light. Gunnar, and others, have been able to produce these high-output lights for years now, they are fantastic! Be warned the cheap bulbs/LED do not preform nearly as well and are a fraction of the cost.
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Post by jhyatt on Apr 29, 2022 13:37:08 GMT -8
I have to say that I'm really a bit puzzled by the statement that UV light from an LED source drops in intensity more abruptly than UV light from a MV or fluorescent source. The apparent brightness of any light source follows an inverse-square law (i.e., intensity falls in proportion to the square of the distance from the source). But the type of light source shouldn't matter, as long as the light output from the sources being compared is the same.
Of course, if the claim means simply that the available LED IV lamps do not emit as many photons as do available MV or fluorescent lamps, the claim makes sense - but if the luminosity of the sources being compared is the same, I don't see how the light from one could drop in intensity more abruptly than from the other. The physics just doesn't work that way.
jh
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Post by jshuey on Apr 29, 2022 14:43:30 GMT -8
Leroy may once have been a credible source, but he was not honest with me in a recent business deal and I know I'm not the only one. But taking him out of the equation, do you suppose anyone else in the business of selling moth traps with only Quantum units on offer is going to tell you if the LEDs are equal to or better? There is a conflict of interest there for certain. To know for sure, I would want to have that information from an honest individual without any skin in the game. I don't know if LED technology is up to the task yet, but I did order a few units from EntoSphinx to try out. I'll have an idea after some time running them this coming season. I do like that they can be run on much more portable lithium ion batteries and that they are watertight. It's something I maybe wouldn't have done if my Leptraps Quantum unit hadn't been a piece of junk. Don't confuse Leroy's end of business failures with his expertise. He made some of the best light traps on the market and was always looking for better options. That said, when he tested LEDs it was several years ago, and technology has changed quite a bit in the interim, and new LEDs are very different than what he tested. There are lots of people who swear by the product that Chris mentioned, but at $300 per unit, it still seems like a risk. John |
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Post by coloradeo on Apr 29, 2022 20:54:06 GMT -8
Thanks for the discussion. I am putting together a 400w MV ballast presently…. Perhaps I’ll continue to focus on that for the coming summer and maybe one day get make the switch.
Eric
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Post by kevinkk on Apr 30, 2022 9:01:27 GMT -8
There is a site called "Entomological Livestock Group" that has some led uv light traps, apparently the light produced by leds is directional,
which may account for the "dropoff" that was mentioned.
I'll probably never find out- I just stocked up on uv bulbs before Biouip shut down. It is interesting though, I suppose florescent bulbs will
disappear along with mv bulbs some day in the future.
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Post by 58chevy on Apr 30, 2022 14:02:56 GMT -8
jhyatt, I'm sure Leroy didn't intend to suggest that laws of physics were broken regarding the UV light intensity he measured. It's been years since I read his post and my comment about the abrupt dropoff in light intensity was poorly worded. The inverse square law certainly still applies, but I'm not clear on what determines the rate of dropoff other than distance from the source. If you have 2 photons of the same wavelength from bulbs of different wattage, do they always have the same energy, or can the wattage of the bulb &/or power source boost their energy and affect the rate of dropoff? My guess is that Leroy measured a low-wattage bulb that couldn't generate enough photons to travel very far.
Chris Grinter & kmhcloseups, the LepiLED & Entosphinx products sound promising. Li ion batteries should be getting cheaper & more efficient in the future. It would be great not to have to lug around a 50-lb. generator.
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Post by jhyatt on Apr 30, 2022 16:31:30 GMT -8
Chevy, Photons of the same wavelength are by definition of the same energy. It's the number of photons that increases with the wattage or luminosity, not the energy of the individual photons
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And I bet you're right that Leroy had a low-output LED uv source on hand. They're probably a lot better now. I've seen some pretty good catches drawn to bucket traps using LED's, but I don't know what type or brand the user employed.
jh
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Post by Chris Grinter on Apr 30, 2022 16:45:19 GMT -8
There are lots of people who swear by the product that Chris mentioned, but at $300 per unit, it still seems like a risk. John But the traps Leroy built at $900 were more reasonable? I bought a few, they were great products, but his ballast with UV switch was nearing $700 alone for $80 in supplies. I've also had to completely rebuild it twice... |
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Post by jshuey on May 1, 2022 5:27:42 GMT -8
But the traps Leroy built at $900 were more reasonable? I bought a few, they were great products, but his ballast with UV switch was nearing $700 alone for $80 in supplies. I've also had to completely rebuild it twice... Risk in the sense that we all have seen florescent black lights and MVs at work - and they work well. But the LED still isn't past the "little bit of hype stage" in my mind. And I should probably sell my old bucket traps if they are worth that much! John |
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Post by 58chevy on May 1, 2022 7:35:04 GMT -8
Chris Grinter, At first I was surprised to hear that your LepiLED worked as well as your MV. I usually set up my rig with three 368 fluorescent Quantum bulbs (40W each) on one side of the sheet and one 400W MV bulb on the other. 80% of the bugs land on the MV side. That makes sense according to jshuey's explanation that the wattage determines the # of photons produced. In my case it's 120W vs. 400W.
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Post by Chris Grinter on May 3, 2022 21:59:34 GMT -8
Sounds like you have some major artillery. In comparison to an off-the-shelf self ballasted 175w HgVPR running in SE Arizona the LepiLED preforms equally as well (and seems to bring in a little more diversity of insects vs. mostly moths to HgVPR). A 400 HgVPR unfrosted bulb I'm sure will do better than both of these combined.
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Post by 58chevy on May 4, 2022 13:29:20 GMT -8
Where can I get a LepiLED? What wattages does it come in? What do you use for the power source, how long will it last on a charge, & where do you get it? How long have LepiLEDs been on the market?
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