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Post by prillbug2 on May 27, 2011 19:04:19 GMT -8
Well, then I'm right in the first place. I'm not a beginner at this. I've been studying the family since 1973. When I'm not collecting them, I'm searching for literare in the winter months. I have a good 20x21" case of Dorcadionini myself. Many sent undetermined. Once they are in my hands, they are determined, even if I have to go to type specimens to confirm it. It simply takes good contacts. I recall that I mentioned in the old forum that I like this tribe, too. Like I said, we have to wade through the muck of synonyms, and horrible systematics, because computers were not used in the old days. Once we get into more obscure areas in China, Eastern Asia, etc, that more species will be described. So, believe it or not, the latest monographs will probably become old hat, as well. Their ranges can be very limited since they don't fly and have to be swept from the foliage. We could be looking at even more species than Sabbadini and Pessarini are projecting. One rule that I've always been told is that not everything in entomology is concrete. There's always more to learn., and that's why I don't rest very often.
Jeff Prill
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Post by zdenol123 on May 28, 2011 0:34:12 GMT -8
Well, then I'm right in the first place. I'm not a beginner at this. I've been studying the family since 1973. When I'm not collecting them, I'm searching for literare in the winter months. I have a good 20x21" case of Dorcadionini myself. Many sent undetermined. Once they are in my hands, they are determined, even if I have to go to type specimens to confirm it. It simply takes good contacts. I recall that I mentioned in the old forum that I like this tribe, too. Like I said, we have to wade through the muck of synonyms, and horrible systematics, because computers were not used in the old days. Once we get into more obscure areas in China, Eastern Asia, etc, that more species will be described. So, believe it or not, the latest monographs will probably become old hat, as well. Their ranges can be very limited since they don't fly and have to be swept from the foliage. We could be looking at even more species than Sabbadini and Pessarini are projecting. One rule that I've always been told is that not everything in entomology is concrete. There's always more to learn., and that's why I don't rest very often. Jeff Prill that could be right Jeff, could be arenarium....I m gonna know that in a month time after I came back from my Hol...in 2 days Im off to Greece again - Dorcadions . Btw, I know you deal with Cerambycids...About them italian guys - sure there will be more changes in the future ( I dont agree with everything what they published, but..., but nowadays they do the best job if I m talking about Balkan penn. and Middle East. They have cleared that mess after Kraatz, Germar, Breuning, Pic, Heyrovsky, Sterba, Chevrolat, Ganglbauer ````ssss after absurdly describing new species ...from every hill new specie. The problem with Dorcadions is, that they do the forms - different colours, even different markings, like white stripes...thats why is there so many species...well has been, now is only sh$t loads of synonyms. ....Russians are useless as well with this... |
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Post by thanos on May 28, 2011 22:18:44 GMT -8
I had written a post before about the similarity to arenarium,but had deleted it,as I was not sure. So,maybe it is a geographic black form -with more white stripes(not prominent,not like the quite well-defined ones on the inner elytral margins and across the middle of pronotum which are very similar to arenarium's) on elytra- of arenarium,or a ssp. of arenarium,but maybe a new undescribed species. And the black forms of arenarium don't occur only in Italy(as told above)..For example these ones were collected in Croatia by M.Hoskovec : www.cerambyx.uochb.cz/dorcaren.htmMaybe black forms of this species occur also in Albania,and Greek Parga,which is not far from Albania. Pesarini & Sabbadini 's revisions are great works,but for sure more things will be revised in the future,more new species will be described..In this chaotic science of entomology you never stop to learn and change opinions  .. Thanos |
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Post by zdenol123 on May 29, 2011 0:36:10 GMT -8
what about this one ? Attachments:
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Post by zdenol123 on May 29, 2011 0:46:35 GMT -8
or this one ( the photo aint mine. hope its not a problem Mr. M. Sticker  ) Attachments:
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Post by thanos on May 29, 2011 11:01:18 GMT -8
Look like arenarium,too.
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Post by zdenol123 on May 29, 2011 11:31:32 GMT -8
first one is Pedestredorcadion ariannae Pes. & Sabb., 2008. And second one is Pedestredorcadion etruscum bravardi Pic, 1916 nothing more I can say about determination of Dorcadions from photos.... |
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Post by thanos on May 29, 2011 14:10:35 GMT -8
Thank you for the ID's - it's the first time I see the so recently described P.ariannae . I didn't say that is arenarium,but that LOOKS LIKE arenarium.
Of course,for so similar species(like for example ariannae and arenarium) identification can't be from photos.That's why I said above for Dave's specimens that MAYBE are a new undescribed species or a form or a ssp. of arenarium. Genitalia examination is needed,except if you know the type localities from the descriptions and you have collected the specimens exactly there,so to be sure for the species.
Thanos
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