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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 13, 2011 6:06:37 GMT -8
I have a friend who has recently been added to the ranks of us 'butterfly murderers' that is most interested in predominantly white butterflies and moths. So things with minimal color, black and white is fine, but mostly white.
What would be considered a premier butterfly or moth that would fall into this categorization? The obvious one that I think of immediately is Thysania agrippina but I am sure other folks with more experience know of alternatives which might even be better for a new collector. I know virtually nothing about non-US Lepidoptera so I'm not even sure what's out there. I am thinking of this because I need to come up with a gift, so I'm curious primarily about species that are readily available and of course LEGAL.
Any and all suggestions are extremely appreciated.
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Post by corradocancemi on Sept 13, 2011 7:41:24 GMT -8
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Post by bluemoth on Sept 13, 2011 7:53:01 GMT -8
Well do not think these are best in the world but they are a start. Parnassians ( parnassius ) are high altitude butterflies that can be found in the mountains of the USA and Europe. It is reported that some fly when there is still snow on the ground. They are very cold hardy. They often have red dots or patches in their black spotted and bared white wings. The Whites ( Pieridae ) are one of the most wide spread groups in the world found on almost every continent. Many species to be found with spots, patches and stripes of black on white wings. Some Pieridae also have a little color often on the wing undersides like yellow, orange, brown or red. Whites are often found in fields and disturbed places. But some like the woods like the Mustard White - Pieris napi - that is rarely seen in open places. Now I know a premier butterfly to have would be a White Monarch from Hawaii. There is a lady there that breeds them. If you contact her take grate care what you say ( do not say anything about collecting insects ) because she is probably some one known as a "butterfly hugger". Butterfly huggers hate insect collectors. They refuse to talk to them or sell live stock or dead stock to them. I know this from experience with some one els that I talked to that had rare cream colored Gulf Fritillaries. Now here is the ladies web sight and her e mail that rears the rare White Monarchs: www.whitemonarchs.comdancetta@butterflyrealtor.com
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Post by saturniidave on Sept 13, 2011 8:36:58 GMT -8
For black and white species it would have to be the Danaiinine genus Idea, or on a smaller scale Pierids of the genus Pieris. Dave
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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 13, 2011 21:07:33 GMT -8
Here's my favorite butterflies with white as the predominant color:
1) Parnassius charltonius, imperator or nomius ssp with lots of red
2) Elymnias agondas Female with blue spots on hind wings
3) Graphium stratiotes
4) Papilio eurymedon
5) Morpho thesus juturna
6) Salamis anacaardi
7) Hypolimnas usambara
8) Pieris cheiranthi Female
9) Eurytides orthosilaus
10) Graphium idaeoides
11) Colotis regina
12) Charaxes hadrianus
13) Morphotaenaris schoenbergi kenrike
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 14, 2011 5:25:33 GMT -8
Wow! Thanks everyone, I have a great list to work from now. There are some really nice butterflies on this list, I'm sure I can find something now.
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Post by bichos on Sept 14, 2011 5:58:35 GMT -8
HELLO
Morpho luna?
legal?
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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 14, 2011 19:21:45 GMT -8
Ken Thorne sells Morpho luna and I saw it at several places.
i'm not sure if Mexican butterflies are "legal" as such (from the point of view of the Mexican government) , but I wouldn't hesitate to order some compared to other species that are on Cites like Buthanitis or Teinopalpus .Just like the Brazil stuff...I just grab specimens when I can in auctions or stores
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 15, 2011 5:25:08 GMT -8
Not legal, just ignoring those non-legal suggestions. There's one from India too listed. Without paperwork, they're illegal is my understanding. Not being a buyer to avoid this in general, I'm going to err on the side of extreme caution.
I appreciate taking the time to answer my request regardless, I will just extract from the responses what I want.
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Post by prillbug2 on Sept 15, 2011 6:11:43 GMT -8
Maybe, if you go to Southern Texas, maybe you'll find a rare stray of Morpho luna, and then you wouldn't have to worry about importing it from Mexico, because you caught it here. One was seen in the US a number of years ago. Maybe, you'll get lucky, someday. Jeff Prill
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 15, 2011 6:38:51 GMT -8
I can just picture camping out for months on the US-Mexican border like a crazy man. I wonder if that really is ever fruitful or if we have border patrol for that too? No Mexican renegade butterflies taking advantage of our wonderful American flowers allowed
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Post by lordpandarus on Sept 15, 2011 12:28:44 GMT -8
They have more important problems in Mexico than to deal with butterfly collectors probably
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Post by starlightcriminal on Sept 16, 2011 5:56:52 GMT -8
Probably you are right, but the American USFW might not have better things to do than to burst your collecting bubble with a huge fine and possible confiscation of your specimens should you end up with a Mexican butterfly and no permits, or Indian or Australian. And I'm not sure that even Mexican authorities wouldn't at least get a kick out of pinching a foreign collector, especially one from a wealthier country. I suspect bribes might be involved which only confounds the degree of illegality. I just avoid anything questionable completely if at all possible.
Just a theoretical question because I have little experience in these matters- what would you do if you did camp out on the US-Mexican border and actually did find some species that are never in the US except for a rare stray, like M. luna? How do you document that it is collected legally because it is US? Seems like making a tag is an easy way to lie and sell things you purchase illegally or something but on the other had there isn't like a 'certificate of authenticity' attached to the butterfly when you net it so how do you show you got yours in Texas, as uncommon as it might be, should it happen? This problem would stop me from collecting M. luna in Texas even if I did see one, which means no record in the long run for future study. I would be afraid of being accused of taking it or getting somehow under the table or whatever. This thought came up with the protection of Cassius and Ceraunus blues too in the other thread, since mine are the ssp. that are now protected. If you get something legally that is suddenly changed in status afterward, there isn't really a system that I know of to use to protect yourself beside the garbage disposal. But that hardly seems fair (to me the collector or to the butterflies that were killed for collection that are now 'bad' specimens to have) or reasonable in terms of future scientific use of my collection so I'm sure there must be something that can be done to show the veracity of your collection data. Who would get official documentation for something they weren't expecting to become protected? You know what I mean? Making problems for me when I try so hard to avoid them.
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 16, 2011 7:47:15 GMT -8
Getting a reputation in Entomology, that is what you can do.
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Post by saturniidave on Sept 16, 2011 10:05:33 GMT -8
A photograph of the live specimen with a point of reference would do the trick I would imagine. As to specimens in your collection becoming protected, as long as they were collected before the date they were protected they should be fine. That is to say they should be fine in your collection, but selling them is a different matter.
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