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Post by autiger85 on Oct 28, 2011 19:30:38 GMT -8
I found this cocoon on one of my crape myrtles a few days ago and thought someone might know what kind of moth it might be. The pupa is very active and I have it inside in a large jar with some dry sand on the bottom and a cloth pulled over the top. Should I dampen the sand or add some sticks to the jar? Attachments:
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Post by wingedwishes on Oct 28, 2011 20:18:04 GMT -8
Sticks yes. May want to attach to a stick also. Looks like an Io moth to me. I know Io will eat myrtles too.
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Post by bluemoth on Oct 29, 2011 10:34:32 GMT -8
Wingedwishes is right about it being a silk moth. I do not believe this is not an Io moth. I think it is one of the bigger silk moth species like Polyphemus. First pupa of Ios are more slender and pointed in the abdomen, not as short and fat as this pupa. Second Io pupa are darker red brown and more shiny than this pupa. Third the cocoon shell is to thick and clean to be an Io. Ios topically go to the ground and pupate in a thin silken cover around them selves under dabree.
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Post by ladobe on Oct 29, 2011 15:42:49 GMT -8
It's pretty hard to offer a viable determination with no location data at all. And since you cut away the silken case more of an idea of its shape, how attached, size, etc would also be helpful.
I know of at least 9-10 possibilities from 6 genera if it fed on the Lagerstroemia, but between normal species variation and without more to go on I won't rule any of them out yet.
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Post by starlightcriminal on Nov 1, 2011 6:04:10 GMT -8
It's not an Io for sure though they are found on Lagerstroemia; their cocoons are far more papery and thinner with a somewhat angular configuration. Definitely Saturniidae though. Does look a bit like a A. polyphemus to me too, it's the thick but sort of messy looking cocoon that is very oval. Cecropia a little like this but in my experience less whispy and thinner. I would also want to know where you found this.
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ckswank
Full Member
Posts: 239
Country: USA
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Post by ckswank on Nov 2, 2011 7:59:33 GMT -8
I would tend to agree with Hyalophora cecropia or at least something in the same genus, depending on where you live. I used to collect cocoons during the winter primarily on maple when I lived in central Illinois where I grew up. Was there an "outer cocoon" besides what is pictured? Generally it is tapered & bunched up where the adult will stretch it open as it emerges. I'd like to throw out a question to see if anyone else ever had the following experience. I noticed on several occasions that there was a kernel of corn tucked inside the opening of these cocoons when I'd open them. My guess was that a squirrel put it there for safe keeping until later. None of the "inner cocoons" were ever damaged, however. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Charlie
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Post by oehlkew on Nov 4, 2011 7:31:40 GMT -8
Almost all Hyalophora pupae I have seen tend to be much darker brown, almost black. I would favour polyphemus, based on colour and antennae outlines, but it is always nice to know locations when trying to help with identifications. Even size can help. Most people have a ruler or measuring stick or tape in the house.
I hope all who submit images in th efuture for id will provide locations, measurements, dates, even elevations if they have them.
Id work is not as easy as some might think. The more information that is provided, the better.
Bill Oehlke
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Post by autiger85 on Nov 4, 2011 16:22:23 GMT -8
Sorry I did not post my location, I am down here along the northern Gulf Coast in south Alabama. There was only the cocoon that is shown covering the pupa and it was attached directly to one of the small branches of the crape myrtle near the trunk. I have seen both Cecropia and Polyphemus moths down here along with Black Witches and several different Sphinx moths. Thanks for all the input and I will let everyone know whatever it turns out to be.
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Post by autiger85 on Nov 4, 2011 16:24:37 GMT -8
Oh yes the pupa is approximately 1 1/2 inches long.
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Post by oehlkew on Nov 5, 2011 1:58:24 GMT -8
It could be a pale coloured cecropia pupa or a polyphemus pupa.
You mentioned the cocoon was attached to a small branch near the trunk. Cecropia usually spin cocoons that are affixed to twigs or branches or trunks or whatever surface via a strong silk mooring that runs almost the entire length of the cocoon.
In the southern states, the polyphemus cocoon often hangs from
a branch by a silk peduncle. Most of the cocoon hangs from the branch like a Christmas tree ornament instead of being longitudinally affixed to its mooring.
The fuzzy appearance of the cocoon is suggestive of the inner cocoon of cecropia, and the overall appearance of the pupa is more suggestive of cecropia, but colour reminds me more of polyphemus. Cecropia also have both an inner and and outer cocoon, while polyphemus have one solid structure.
The way in which the cocoon was affixed to the branch should give you the clues you need.
Bill Oehlke
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