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Post by mosler on Dec 28, 2011 15:41:40 GMT -8
Hello: I have 17th century Dutch drawings with several insects, that are all named butterflies. They are clearly moths and other insects too. Would anyone be so kind to help me identify all the insects in the drawing? I would be very grateful. In the seventeenth century, the Dutch traded primarily with the far east (Indonesia etc.) but rare insects were collected and studied by artists. I would not only be interested in the name of species but also the country of origin if possible. With many thanks for all your help! Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Dec 28, 2011 23:14:07 GMT -8
Here we have European Lepidoptera.
Only one is butterfly(Rhopalocera) : the one on the top-left corner : It is Issoria lathonia (Nymphalidae).
All the others are moths(Heterocera):
Center: Arctia caja (Arctiidae).
Top-left corner: looks like a Spilosoma species (Arctiidae).
Bottom-right corner: Scoliopteryx libatrix (Noctuidae).
Bottom-left corner: looks like Minucia lunaris (Noctuidae).
Thanos
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Post by nomihoudai on Dec 29, 2011 2:46:12 GMT -8
Minucia lunaris ? This moth is rare as hell north of Alps...
When I saw the pic the first thing that came to my mind was Dicallomera fascelina and I guess the painter wanted to depict that moth.
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Post by homard on Dec 29, 2011 6:38:52 GMT -8
Interesting picture! I love the old pictures of insects. Three specimens are drawn quite realistically, thus Thanos gave a correct ID immediately. The top-left one looks as with some elements of fantasy. First of all, it has two pairs of antennae, both male and female, that afford me to guess the artist was drawing it 'from memory'. It resembles well Spilosoma lubricipeda. However, all european Spilosoma has a yellow abdomen on the dorsal side. Neither of them has the regular black dots along the margins of HWs... I'd say it might be Hyphantria cunea, but it's introduced in Europe about 1940(AFAIK) while the picture is said of 17th century.... Or, it might be a picture of a very scarce-speckled aberrant of Lymantria monacha, drawn 'from the memory'  At least, this species has got a regular black dots along the wing's margins... Of a bottom-left specimen I can say only that it's not Minucia lunaris, definitely. M.lunaris is (relatively) common in my area, it has a very distint wing pattern. Moreover, it's a relatively big owlet, almost the same size as Arctia caja. As we can guess the specimens on the picture are in a real scale respectively of each other, and the specimen in question is of the same size as S. libatrix. I would not be too sure it's Dicallomera fascelina, as it's too much differ from the real specimens. May I guess it's some Notodontid? Wing pattern of the right FW reminds some Clostera... however the left FW depicted with noticeable different pattern, which adds to confusion... |
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Post by thanos on Dec 29, 2011 14:43:38 GMT -8
I thought,too,of the yellow abdomen of Spilosoma lubricipeda. Maybe the painted moth is a mix of S.lubricipeda and the female Diaphora mendica which has white abdomen  . About the sizes : The forewing length of Minucia lunaris is 2.2-2.5 cm, while the one of Arctia caja is 2.5-3.5 cm. Usually lunaris is quite smaller than caja. I have collected,also, many giant Issoria lathonia,larger than A.caja . Also, as some wingshapes are not so accurate in these paintings, some sizes can be not so accurate,too . Thanos |
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At least, this species has got a regular black dots along the wing's margins...
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