nicks
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by nicks on Jan 21, 2011 20:54:57 GMT -8
Hi everybody. I bought some Parnassius from a dodgy chinese seller who has very good prices but often makes mistakes in identifying a species or separating males from females... Therefore I need some help with these specimens.
In the first picture, the pair was sold as Tianschanicus. I'm really not sure if this is true or even if the male and the female are the same species. Any thoughts? (it looks like P. actius ornatus to me....)
The second picture was supposed to be a pair of P. jacquemontii jupiterius. Although there is quite a big difference in the pattern they do look like 2 males to me unless the female jacquemonti has hairy body as well? Can this really be a pair?
In the third picture I should have a pair of each P. simo and P. andreji ogawai. Unfortunately he sent them altogether and I really have no idea which one is simo, which is andreji or even which is male or female.
PLEASE HELP ME!
Thank you very much, Nick
|
|
|
|
nicks
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by nicks on Jan 21, 2011 20:55:23 GMT -8
Second picture.
|
|
nicks
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by nicks on Jan 21, 2011 20:55:49 GMT -8
Third picture.
|
|
|
|
Post by lepidofrance on Jan 24, 2011 13:12:42 GMT -8
First picture : it would be interesting to know the butterfly size ; as far I know P. tianschanicus is larger than P. actius. I'll say (but I'm not a Parnassidae specialist) that the samples are P. tianschanicus, female above, male under. About the ssp., I can't say anything : it's not P. tianschanicus tianschanicus, nor P. t. astrictio, nor P. t. thiseus (which are the ssp. I know from Kyrgyzstan). See the page : www.lepido-france.fr/2010/01/photos-de-parnassidae-ii/Check on the Weiss's book on Parnassidae or on that website : goran.waldeck.se/paindex.htm |
|
|
|
Post by lepidofrance on Jan 24, 2011 13:37:41 GMT -8
Third picture : Comparing the shape of the black dots and lines (mainly FW), I presume that : - number 1 is P. andreji (probably female) - number 2 is P. andreji (male) - number 3 is P. simo (female ?) - number 4 is P. simo (male ?) Second picture : too difficult to say. I don't know how is jupiterus. Check on : goran.waldeck.se/paindex.htmMany, so many infos about Parnassidae on this russian forum (check all the pages !!) : www.molbiol.ru/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t214757-0.htmlChecking in my drawers, I can state that I have Parnassidae females (females without doubt : they have the sphringis) which are hairy ( tianschanicus, delphius, etc.) www.lepido-france.fr/2010/12/photos-de-parnassidae/ |
|
|
|
Post by lepidofrance on Jan 24, 2011 13:50:18 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
nicks
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by nicks on Jan 25, 2011 0:13:53 GMT -8
Thank you very much Lepidofrance for taking the time to answer to my questions! Regarding the size of first pair: female is approx 6cm, the male 5.5cm so they are somewhere between actius and tianshanicus?  It is a little bit confusing because this pair does not resemble any of the "whiter" ssp of tianschanicus I know but...I don't know that much so I'll go with your suggestion. Your answer about the third picture makes me quite happy because that's what i was thinking as well so it's all good now I already checked all the websites you mentioned but to be honest they make me even more confused with so many ssp out there:) I also checked the very nice pictures you have on picasa! Again, many thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by homard on Mar 3, 2011 17:13:19 GMT -8
If it's not too late! (just joined the forum The first pair is everything but P.tianschanicus. I'd say it's P.actius - as you guessed yourself. Though I have no Chinese Actius at all, these specimens are very similar to P.actius from Central Asia. Of these I have plenty, various sspp. in my collection. Cannot judge about the second pair - Chinese sspp. of P.jacquemontii are so different from the Central Asian sspp.... Of Simo group I have a lot of P. boedromius and P. simonius from C. Asia but just a few P. simo, so hard to judge. Though I'm pretty certain that No.1 is P. andreiji and No.2 is P. simo. 3 & 4 - cannot decide. In this group both male and female has a hairy abdomen, so best way to determine sexes when in doubt - is to check their genitalia |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 17:24:15 GMT -8
|
|
nicks
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by nicks on Mar 23, 2011 2:30:07 GMT -8
Thanks Homard. It's not too late, I always come back here to check for other replies, hoping to solve this puzzle....
|
|
It is a little bit confusing because this pair does not resemble any of the "whiter" ssp of tianschanicus I know but...I don't know that much so I'll go with your suggestion. 
