|
|
Post by myotis on Jul 23, 2012 9:29:27 GMT -8
In April, before the leaves even started emerging, I found 3 C. promethea cocoons on the same tree. They still have not hatched. Promthea are single brooded here. All of the other promethea I raised hatched, laid eggs and most of them have made cocoons already, but these have still not hatched. They all have nice weight to them and out of curiosity I cut one open and it has a nice healthy pupa inside. Anyone ever seen promethea overwinter twice before?
|
|
|
|
Post by ladobe on Jul 23, 2012 11:04:22 GMT -8
Many species can go longer than normal to eclose if they remain viable, even in the right environmental conditions. Those conditions usually trigger eclosion if right, but may hinder it if not ideal. Whether it be late in a season, over another winter or several of them. Why I reared most of my stock in climate contollable cages, and overwinterd with controllable methods. Even so I've had some Hemileuciinae pupae hold over for 4-5 years or longer before eclosing, and biennial Oenis species as long, just two examples out of many more.
|
|
|
|
Post by oehlkew on Jul 24, 2012 6:52:55 GMT -8
I have not heard of promethea cocoons overwintering for two winters, but closely related Hyalophora (especially euryalus and gloveri) and Rothschildia and Eupackardia species are all known to sometimes have pupae remain in cocoons for at least two winters and then eclose as perfect adult moths. Likely that is what your promethea are going to do.
Bill Oehlke
|
|
|
|
Post by admin on Jul 24, 2012 12:38:32 GMT -8
Many species can go longer than normal to eclose if they remain viable, even in the right environmental conditions. Those conditions usually trigger eclosion if right, but may hinder it if not ideal. Whether it be late in a season, over another winter or several of them. Why I reared most of my stock in climate contollable cages, and overwinterd with controllable methods. Even so I've had some Hemileuciinae pupae hold over for 4-5 years or longer before eclosing, and biennial Oenis species as long, just two examples out of many more. May I ask: what temperature do you overwinter Saturnid cocoons in your setup? |
|
|
|
Post by ladobe on Jul 24, 2012 13:53:35 GMT -8
Many species can go longer than normal to eclose if they remain viable, even in the right environmental conditions. Those conditions usually trigger eclosion if right, but may hinder it if not ideal. Whether it be late in a season, over another winter or several of them. Why I reared most of my stock in climate contollable cages, and overwinterd with controllable methods. Even so I've had some Hemileuciinae pupae hold over for 4-5 years or longer before eclosing, and biennial Oenis species as long, just two examples out of many more. May I ask: what temperature do you overwinter Saturnid cocoons in your setup? Clark, Depended, on the natural habitat of a species where it's stock was collected, and where I lived at the time. When I lived in the deep snow/cold country sometimes in special cages I made that were strategically placed on my property to use more natural conditions, often buried in the snow under a tree. But both then and after moving to the desert 20+ years ago mostly in up to 5 extra refridgerators in my garage I bought just for overwintering livestock and larval food plant in. I could control the temperature of each for what was kept in it, and let experience determine where the thermostat of each was held by rountinely monitoring them all winter and adjusting if I felt the need. They could also be moved top to bottom in each in relation to the freezer compartment to vary temperature several degrees. When in the frozen north I could also move stock between outdoors and my cold storge if I thought it was dictated. IOW, I can't give you a set temperature to use, way too many variables. But there are indicators in the stock to go by - excess humidity or even mold on stock, non airtight containers or medium, making sure they are not freezing and still pliable, etc. It works and it works very well with not a lot of extra time or effort involved. I had so many because I reared so many, but a bottom shelf in the kitchen's refridgerator (if the spouse doesn't balk), or a used one picked up extra is a small expense for success of hard won livestock you may have traveled hunreds to thousands of miles to collect at high expense like I did often. FWIW Larry |
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Jul 25, 2012 11:56:50 GMT -8
I've had many "healthy" saturnids refuse to eclose, and done the same thing- cut the caccoon, and find a healthy pupa that moves and looks full. None however have lasted until the next season (even the ones I did not slit open).
I've overwintered cecropia, luna, promethea, polyphemus, io, as well as many sphingids in the garage, meaning that January/February temps were typically around 2 C and low might hit -10 C. Either way it was always warmer than outdoors.
|
|
