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Post by admin on Apr 5, 2013 15:26:57 GMT -8
By the way, I easily embedded these videos for viewing within the message. Just use beginning and ending YouTube brackets around the URL. Instructions can be found in our YouTube Insect Videos section at the top.
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 5, 2013 18:04:53 GMT -8
In all fairness to Chris, the skeptical point of view, and to see things objectively, I must say that there is no real proof as to the existence of sasquatch. What has been collected as hair samples, and scat is somewhat ambiguous to say the least. Also there is the fact that no-one has ever brought in a body dead or alive, no bones, no teeth, no body part. I am assuming that if someone brought in a sample for DNA analysis, they would have to have a comparison in order to make a definate ID? As Melinda stated, it will take an intact specimen to remove all doubt, and until that happens the fiasco will continue. I am not posting any comments, or videos to pursuade anyone one way or the other. I am simply sharing some interesting accounts with fellow readers and members in order to get their viewpoints. As far as I can tell, there are those that believe because they want this to be true somehow, and there are those that believe due to the evidence they have studied. Then there are those that don't believe simply because that is what they have been conditioned to do, some skeptics are rather difficult to convince until they actually have the proof in front of them. Also there are those that don't believe because the likelyhood seems so remote that they just can't accept another viewpoint. The theory I have is double sided....either this is the most elaborate hoax to ever come about, or somewhere amongst the hoaxes, there is some genuine evidence. Which would make the existence of these creatures real, whatever they might be. Tom
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Post by admin on Apr 5, 2013 21:00:42 GMT -8
I have no doubt honest people see/hear bigfoots and UFO's. So, no one should be offended. The question is: what are we actually looking at? I propose they are in the general category of 'poltergiests'. Poltergiests CAN leave footprints and impressions on film - because they are made of energy. But you will NEVER be able to 'catch' one on the physical level. But, if irrefutable proof is produced I will change my mind. After all, what is more interesting than cryptozoology?
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 6, 2013 0:27:41 GMT -8
Have to agree with Chris Grinter here.
Americans with their bigfoots and British with their big cats make me laugh, with all due respect of course !
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 2:49:34 GMT -8
why the surprise guys, if you remember from the old forum Bigfoot had his own church and his own nation, we were about to invade and take over Italy on our way to world domination.
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 6, 2013 3:20:39 GMT -8
Im' not sure what you are referring to Dunco, you can supply a link. Here is an interview with the late Grover Krantz who was the foremost expert on the subject of bigfoot. There is some footage of the Paul Freeman encounter, which is in the above thread I posted, so just fast forward to the interview if you want. Dr. Krantz does pose some interesting hypothesis on the matter, and he seems to have been quite an intriguing individual, with well thought out opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 4:10:07 GMT -8
Hi Tom, for some reason we dont seem to have access to the old forum any more.
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Post by admin on Apr 6, 2013 9:07:36 GMT -8
Hi Tom, for some reason we dont seem to have access to the old forum any more. The old Forum has been taken off the server. Sorry. It was corrupted. |
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 6, 2013 11:33:49 GMT -8
So sorry to hear about the old forum being corrupted, and the unfortunate misbehaving here on this great website. I have oftentimes experienced the feeling of somehow being misunderstood, but have managed to not let myself become emotionally compromised. We should all try to keep things on an objective level, and at least attempt to avoid immature reactions. Then again we are all human, and sometimes we let our feelings run away, because lets face it, we don't all see things the same way. People are people. Tom
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 6, 2013 11:48:38 GMT -8
Getting back on track with the subject matter at hand. Whenever I discuss the possibility of sasquatch being real, one question always arises....There are more gun owners in America than probably anywhere in the world, so if bigfoot really exists, then why has no-one ever shot one and presented it to the world? Their argument being that all the sightings are a hoax, therefore played out by some idiot in a suit. OK, I agree with that, but then you could ask....If there are so many idiots running around in remote areas wearing a bigfoot costume, why hasn't one of them been blown away by a hunter, or other gun toting individual? If there were 100 sightings, at least 50 of them would carry a gun here in America, especially during deer or bear hunting season. As far as I can tell, there are no reports of anyone ever being shot by someone who thought they "Saw Bigfoot!" No matter which "side of the fence" you are on, this has to be considered. Tom
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Post by Chris Grinter on Apr 6, 2013 12:31:21 GMT -8
In response to your last point - I don't think there are guys just running around the woods in suits for that very reason, they would get shot! ha When they commit a hoax there is a team of guys, one in a suit and one pretending to be shocked and amazed while recording it. So I don't think this is something that "has to be considered".
All the other sightings from people who aren't consciously hoaxing are probably seeing bears/other wildlife. A black bear on its hind legs can look suspicious, especially to a person who hasn't spent much time in the woods.
As far as DNA - you don't need a comparison from a known sample to know it would be unknown. True, you couldn't "match" it to something, but there would clearly be a relation to primates, probably basally related to Gorillas. On the BOLD barcode website you can plug in a DNA sequence and it'll give you a % match to the nearest animal. So I suspect if you actually had Bigfoot DNA you'd plug it in and see a 93% match to Gorilla or some such result.
The hair samples being collected always turn out to be bear - or a hoax. I think there was one famous one where it was yak hair (or something like musk ox). It took forever to identify and the guys were claiming it was unknown and probably bigfoot - but after it found a real zoologist they narrowed it down pretty quickly.
I don't believe because there is no compelling evidence, I'm not close minded or can't accept another viewpoint - I just like to live in reality. Of course I would accept the reality of bigfoot if I was shown real evidence - but to date no credible biologist or zoologist has attached his name to this creature. And if this thing really lives in the US there has to be a population of them - in the many thousands at the very least.
And I will repeat again - I have found bear remains, multiple times - usually a broken bit of jawbone that's fairly easy to identify. I even have a beautiful bear skull I found in the back country of Santa Barbara county. So you're telling me this doesn't exist?
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 6, 2013 12:32:28 GMT -8
I remember seeing a very interesting, and much more up to date documentary which is based on Dr. Meldrums book on the Discovery channel. In this documentary a team of scientists analize, compare and discuss a good deal of evidence regarding sasquatch, in a very discriminating, objective manner, which would apply perfectly to this thread. I was able to find it and get the link, so I can share it here. As you will see, it poses as many questions as it answers. Tom
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 6, 2013 12:46:33 GMT -8
In response to Chris' question, I....-am not telling you that there are no remains of bears or cougars. If you watch the interview with Dr. Krantz, you will see that he clearly states that there has never been a report of an intact carcass of a bear found that died of natural causes, outside of someone shooting it or being perhaps struck by a vehicle on some backroad for instance. I know bears exist of course, I once stalked up to a large male within 40 yards eating fallen persimmons, and took photos of it as it looked right at me. It seemed unalarmed at my presence and continued eating, so I just backed off slowly and exited the area, all the while keeping an eye on my backtrail. I have no doubt that you found the skull of a bear. That being said, I must admit that if someone found the skull of a sasquatch, it would bring us much closer to confirming their existence, but I doubt anyone ever will, for a multitude of reasons. Tom
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Post by beetlehorn on Apr 6, 2013 13:14:20 GMT -8
I also like to "live in reality". I was merely presenting the possibility that amongst the thousands (approx. 5000) of sightings to date, if all of them were hoaxes, then the random sightings in extremely remote areas where deer, elk, and bear hunting is done each year by even more thousands of sportsmen, why has no-one ever been shot, as in the event the hunter misidentified the hoaxer as "bigfoot"? To state it more simply...I would be rather apprehensive to go out in the woods here where there are lots of trigger happy guys in treestands, wearing a hairy suit, trying to pass myself off as "bigfoot". Whether to try and scare someone randomely, or even to present myself to a videographer purposely staging a hoax, (which is extremely odd to me). Even if I had a team of guys watching the surrounding area. The whole time I would be wondering if someone has me in the crosshairs of their 30-06!
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Post by Chris Grinter on Apr 6, 2013 13:54:07 GMT -8
haha I certainly would never do it - just my luck I'd get shot!
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