Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 10:54:47 GMT -8
Although it is very interesting when a species is rediscovered when it was thought extinct I also love having specimens of species that have become extinct in one country like maculinea arion, Lycaena dispar, nymphalis polychloris and English Carterocephalus palaemon all lost here in the UK although Carterocephalus palaemon still exists locally in Scotland.
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Post by nomad on Apr 17, 2013 11:00:17 GMT -8
It does seem that other collectors have looked for Papilio lampsacus without success. In 1998 the Japanese collector Hugeng Hunianto spent four months searching Mount Gede for Papilio lampsacus where he had seen the butterfly in 1986. After drawing a blank Hugeng presumed the butterfly was indeed extinct in that locality. It does seem that even in the 1980's this butterfly was quite frequent in West Java and was advertised on British dealers lists for as little as £7. 50! In 2005 a team of Indonesian researches studied the butterflies of the montane forests of West Java from March to August but did not observe Papilio lampsacus. In 2007 the Indonesian Institute of Sciences officially declared Papilio lampsacus extinct in Java. It is interesting that Jan Pasternak states that P. lampsacus was not exclusively confined to montane forests and with the loss of all the lowland rainforest in Java, it was perhaps driven to a higher elevation because it had nowhere else to go. It does seem that Jan Pasternak was the last person to see this species in Java. Let us hope a population is rediscovered.
Peter.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 17, 2013 11:31:36 GMT -8
Hugeng Hunianto doesn't sound very Japanese, more like an Indonesian name. Did he publish his findings somewhere?
Adam.
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Post by nomad on Apr 18, 2013 8:17:07 GMT -8
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 18, 2013 11:28:54 GMT -8
Interesting article, thanks Peter.
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jaume
Full Member
Posts: 210
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Post by jaume on Apr 18, 2013 12:21:36 GMT -8
When we talk about papilio lampsacus or when someone post pictures of this species, all specimens are usually males. Anybody out there has seen or has a female? I have a male in my collection, but I have not seen a female never. A picture would be nice
JAUME
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Post by hewi on Apr 18, 2013 12:53:27 GMT -8
I have one japanese publication from 2001 (sorry, I'm not able to read the title) with the illustration of the lampsacus female. Tsukuda & Nishiyama in "Butterflies of the South East Asian Islands", 1982 stated: "No female specimen is preserved in Japan; besides we have never heard of any Japanese collector that captured the male." Manfred Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 18, 2013 14:12:32 GMT -8
I have a copy of that book, it has lots of pics of gynandromorphs and aberrations. I'll ask a friend to read the name of the author. I think it is published by Mokuyo-sha, as I'm pretty sure that Nishiyama-san gave it to me a few years ago.
Adam.
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mokky
Full Member
The Butterfly Society of Japan
Posts: 155
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Post by mokky on Apr 18, 2013 15:22:04 GMT -8
Dear all, The book is as follows; Nishiyama, Y. 2001. "Illustrated catalog of rare insects 2001", LIS, Tokyo (in Japanese) This book contains many gynandrmorph and abberation. If you can not read Japanese, you must enjoy many beautiful pictures. For your information, I translate the explanation of Papilio lampsacus in this book. Papilio lampsacus Endemic to Java. This species rapidly became scarce just after the eruption of the volcano. This species has never been recorded for these 20 years and some researchers think it had already gone extinct. Females are quite rare. In Japan only 3 females are preserved. sorry for my poor translation...  cheers, mokky |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 19, 2013 6:42:55 GMT -8
Mokky,
Thanks for the translation. I was about to post the title of the book myself, having asked a friend. On the same page as the text about P. lampsacus is some text about the female of Graphium phidias. Can you possibly translate that also?
Do you know how Nishiyama-san is now? I have known him since about 1985, and he used to visit me often in the late 1980s. The last time I met him was in Vientiane on 14 August 2008 (he had just arrived and I was on my way back to Thailand) and a few months later he fell ill. Luckily he recovered and he said several times by e-mail that he wanted to visit Chiang Mai, but has not been able to come here since. I have not heard from him for some time, hopefully he is still well.
Adam.
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mokky
Full Member
The Butterfly Society of Japan
Posts: 155
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Post by mokky on Apr 19, 2013 16:32:10 GMT -8
Dear Adam,
Please accept my poor translation. The text means as follows;
Graphium phidias --- A mysterious swallowtail of Indo-china
A mystrious butterfly which is found in Indo-china. Some researchers argues that this species could be the "missing link" between Graphium antiphates group and G. macareus group. Above shown is the female and such a fresh specimen had never been obtained. This specimen was collected from Xam Neua in N. Laos, far from normal known locality.
Do not worry. Nishiyama-san is now very well. He has recovered from the illness and still vigously continues his small magazine on butterflies. He decided to reduce his business and discarded the huge stock of butterfly specimens.
cheers,
mokky
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 21, 2013 6:26:54 GMT -8
Mokky, Thank you very much for the translation, and good news about Nishiyama-san. If you see him please send my regards. With regard to the taxonomic position of G. phidias, I have to say that Nishiyama's opinion is almost certainly incorrect. Makita et al (2003) in a DNA analysis placed phidias at the base of the eurypylus group, on the other side of the tree to the antiphates and macareus groups. Recently I have been studying the wing pattern of phidias, and I noticed one character that particularly points to the DNA analysis being correct. In the macareus group a yellow spot can be found in several species only near the anal angle of the hindwing, never in the discal area, but in phidias there is a yellow spot in spaces 4 and 5 on the hindwing underside. These may well be homologous with the red/yellow/orange spots found on the hindwing underside of the various species of the eurypylus group. Here's a photo of my female phidias, one of the 'special' specimens in my collection. Adam. Attachments:
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Post by hewi on Apr 21, 2013 13:12:18 GMT -8
aureus-butterflies-and-insects just now
has a male of P. lampsacus in eBay.
Item No. 130893943475
Manfred
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iroki
Full Member
Posts: 73
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Post by iroki on Apr 21, 2013 13:19:13 GMT -8
aureus-butterflies-and-insects just now has a male of P. lampsacus in eBay. Item No. 130893943475 Manfred It is the same specimen, as the one sold at Drouot this year. |
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mokky
Full Member
The Butterfly Society of Japan
Posts: 155
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Post by mokky on Apr 25, 2013 18:35:13 GMT -8
Dear Adam Very sorry for my snail response. Thank you for your updated information on the classification of Graphium phidias. Also I enjoyed the image of the very rare female in your collection. It is very interesting that G. phidias is close to G. eurypylus. If there is some resemblance also in the biology, it is much more interesting. The early stages of G. phidias must be unveiled. cheers, mokky Mokky, Thank you very much for the translation, and good news about Nishiyama-san. If you see him please send my regards. With regard to the taxonomic position of G. phidias, I have to say that Nishiyama's opinion is almost certainly incorrect. Makita et al (2003) in a DNA analysis placed phidias at the base of the eurypylus group, on the other side of the tree to the antiphates and macareus groups. Recently I have been studying the wing pattern of phidias, and I noticed one character that particularly points to the DNA analysis being correct. In the macareus group a yellow spot can be found in several species only near the anal angle of the hindwing, never in the discal area, but in phidias there is a yellow spot in spaces 4 and 5 on the hindwing underside. These may well be homologous with the red/yellow/orange spots found on the hindwing underside of the various species of the eurypylus group. Here's a photo of my female phidias, one of the 'special' specimens in my collection. Adam. |
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