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Post by pittendrighinsects on May 8, 2013 17:43:01 GMT -8
OK, so basically today, I was collecting in a no-mow zone and this guy kicked me off cause he said I was stomping on their prarie weeds...is it illegal for me to collect or be in this area and could he get the police against me for trampling on their weeds. Thanks,
Quintin
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ckswank
Full Member
Posts: 239
Country: USA
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Post by ckswank on May 9, 2013 21:48:41 GMT -8
Don't really know if it was illegal to collect insects where you were collecting. Usually if it is, there are warning signs posted concerning trespassing in these no-mow areas. The reason some states have these areas is to allow the native plants to produce seed to repopulate the area. Many of these "prairie weeds" are important food sources for native animals, including butterflies. We all know how important habitat loss is to local populations so maybe you should rethink your position. Sounds like he may have been just trying to protect the habitat. Just a few thoughts to ponder.
Charlie
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Post by jshuey on May 10, 2013 5:23:10 GMT -8
OK, so basically today, I was collecting in a no-mow zone and this guy kicked me off cause he said I was stomping on their prarie weeds...is it illegal for me to collect or be in this area and could he get the police against me for trampling on their weeds. Thanks, Quintin Did you have permission to be on the land in question? If no - then you were probably trespassing, and liable to get in trouble. Keep in mind that 99.9 percent of tallgrass prairie has been plowed under. Those "weeds" themselves are fairly rare and can support populations of insects that are even rarer. People get a little protective about some of the remain tracts of pre-settlement habitats, especially if you didn't bother to ask if you could be on the site. Shuey
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Post by pittendrighinsects on May 10, 2013 15:59:39 GMT -8
Might I remind you that once upon a time, large herds of bison trampled over these weeds and the weeds still survived...I can't see how me stepping on some dandylions will ruin a prarie ;D...and besides, there are no "no trespassing" signs anywhere and many people go into these no mow zones...
What? Do you expect me to go into the already established praries in the insectorium and at Meadowbrook park which are full of ticks and get lime disease just to please one idiot? I don't think so...and frankly, if collecting butterflies means ruining a few weeds, I am willing to do this...
Quintin
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Post by papilio28570 on May 10, 2013 18:09:00 GMT -8
Sounds to me like roadside right of way land which is public property. If it is public land, you can collect unless it is posted with signage.
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Post by Chris Grinter on May 10, 2013 19:56:50 GMT -8
I'm not really familiar with these no-mow zones, but it just sounds like highway right-of-way land that is left un-mowed. Good! And if these are roadsides you can collect on them because they are public land. If it was one random guy shouting at you then there is nothing to worry about - as long as you didn't hop any fences?
What state are you in by the way?
And Quintin, show a modicum of respect for prairie PLANTS. They are not weeds, they are hosts to the butterflies you are collecting. These can often be fragile and stepping on them would kill them. And yes, highway and railway right-of-ways can be hosts to lots of real and important habitat since all the rest has been turned into crops. I have no idea where you live, but Bison were not integral parts to ALL grassland habitats. Western short-grass prairie hosted Bison herds of the millions. Eastern tall grass prairie did not.
And if the parks around you have ticks and lyme disease, so do the roadside grasses!
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Post by mygala on May 10, 2013 21:59:06 GMT -8
...and besides, there are no "no trespassing" signs anywhere and many people go into these no mow zones... What? Do you expect me to go into the already established praries in the insectorium and at Meadowbrook park which are full of ticks and get lime disease just to please one idiot? I don't think so...and frankly, if collecting butterflies means ruining a few weeds, I am willing to do this... Quintin Depending on local or state laws, the folks restoring the native plants aren't always required to post no trespassing signs. Just because you don't see a sign, it doesn't mean that you can collect where ever you like. And, if it's like some of the areas in my state, where they're spending quite a lot of time and money, trying to re-establish native prairie plants, ...I can assure you, they'd be just as willing to arrest you for tresspass and vandalism as you would be to collect there. Even if the police or wildlife officers don't arrest you, they can be very annoying and could effectively ruin an otherwise good day of collecting. In the end, conflict like this doesn't serve either side. It makes everybody look silly and churlish. Remember, people are already quick to label collectors in a negative way, please don't give them more material to work with. Ask the person where the boundaries are of the planted area. Show him a little respect, and that you're willing to work with him. Just like we hate to hear people say "It's just an insect...", botanists cringe when people say "It's just a plant..." which is exactly the kind of vibe I'm getting from you. In the scheme of things, you have a wide variety of places to collect, those plants are extremely limited in where they can grow. The rural world is full of mowers and ruminants.
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Post by pittendrighinsects on May 11, 2013 5:05:52 GMT -8
I live in Illinois, and here in Urbana, we already have a large amount of prarie...and ok, I can understand that, right now, there are always 3-5 people there planting "plants" and that they don't want them to be stepped on, but this is public property, there are no fences and no"no trespassing" signs. Legally, I don't think it is a problem, and frankly, I will give this guy a piece of my mind if he tells me to go away...
I don't mind arguing this guy cause this is the only area that has butterflies and no ticks....every time I go to the already established praries, there are always ticks that cause lime disease....
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Post by myotis on May 11, 2013 8:33:27 GMT -8
Who owns the "public property"? County, city, state? Is it a WMA, state park, county park, easement, other? Many of these have specific rules about disturbing/ moving, collecting anything and can vary greatly depending on what type of "public property" it is. Often these rules are not posted, but in the eyes of law enforcement, ignorance is never an excuse. I would think this would be even more likely in a reestablished native prairie.
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Post by pittendrighinsects on May 11, 2013 9:15:48 GMT -8
No-Mow zones are not state/national parks and are usually a small field...I think it is owned by the U of I...but anyway, no rules are posted and the guy didn't really get upset about the collecting, but that I was stepping on the plants...legally, I can be there with no problems...
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Post by Chris Grinter on May 11, 2013 12:12:21 GMT -8
You've answered your own question. They are operated by UIUC on public lands. You couldn't be arrested for trespassing, but you can be arrested for vandalism.
Something similar happened while I was a student of the college when a drunk kid wandered into the Morrow plots (America's oldest research field). After trampling down corn and ruining an experiment the student was arrested, charged, and expelled.
If you're going to continue to be this arrogant and disrespectful of peoples hard work in restoring small patches of prairie, you should be arrested for vandalism. So go give that guy a piece of your mind - and thanks for giving all of us collectors a bad name.
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Post by pittendrighinsects on May 11, 2013 13:29:55 GMT -8
This isn't exactly "vandalism" as I am careful not to step on any plants and walking on some weeds would be a ridiculous form of vandalism...seriously, I find it ludicrous that by walking in a weedpatch, I could be arrested, don't make me laugh...
Frankly, I found your third paragraph very offensive as this is stupid worthless work...planting weeds while we already have praries. Also, it is not necessary to insult me, but this just shows your maturity level lolololololol.
Quintin
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Post by myotis on May 11, 2013 17:26:55 GMT -8
Quintin, As Jshuey pointed out, over 99% of the original prairie is gone. There has been a lot of effort to re-establish them at both a large level and personal level (in peoples yards). I'd be willing to bet there there are a lot more people out there interested in planting "weeds" than there are insect collectors. Check out wildones.org
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Post by pittendrighinsects on May 11, 2013 18:19:38 GMT -8
Alright, I understand that, yes, these praries harbor many good species of butterflies, but what good does that do me if I can't collect them??? As I said, NOONE can kick me out of there as it is PUBLIC property...so it is not a question of ethics, but of legality...and even at that, it is still ethical to collect on public land.
Quintin
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Post by africaone on May 12, 2013 0:04:28 GMT -8
that's a real problem .. ethic and legality are not always linked ! like to offer guns to children, it is legal .... is it ethic ? sale tabacco to third world countries ... legal ... is it ethic ! to product chemical for agriculture and destroy a big part of the living world ... legal .. is it ethic ? etc. (hundreds cases)
then to say that if it is not illegal, you can do .... strange thinking !
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