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Post by jonathan on Aug 7, 2013 9:42:53 GMT -8
To Adam: Oooopps Lapsus. You're right.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 7, 2013 9:48:16 GMT -8
On the face of it collecting 2,850 specimens from the same area,over a few days, does not seem very scientific. What were they planning to do with the hundreds and hundreds of duplicates? It sounds quite a lot, but if you do the maths, supposing they collected 100 species of all sorts of butterflies that would average out at 28.5 specimens per species, a reasonable amount to observe variation. Even if they collected 50 species that would still average out to about 50 specimens per species, further divisible into males and females. Adam. |
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Post by wollastoni on Aug 7, 2013 9:49:14 GMT -8
suzuki < my friend you have no idea for how long they were in Turkey. JC is a serious guy, he must have good reasons. Please let's not judge without knowing.
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Post by wollastoni on Aug 7, 2013 9:54:38 GMT -8
Just to close this subject : they are all safe back and without any fines. So no big problems luckily. Let's all be very cautious with Turkey.
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Post by wollastoni on Aug 7, 2013 9:56:22 GMT -8
+ the second Frenchman wasn't Mr Michel as said in this topic
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Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 7, 2013 9:58:46 GMT -8
Btw, these guys had the P. apollo with them. Considering that it is a CITES 1 species, I think that they were seriously asking for trouble. The law is the law and such species cannot be collected. Scientists or not, we are all aware of this. Actually, the CITES convention does not in itself prohibit collecting CITES listed species, only transport (by whatever means) of those species between countries. That is what the I in CITES stands for, 'International'. However the laws of individual countries that ratified CITES very often include clauses prohibiting collecting, killing etc of CITES listed species within the country as well. You would not be breaking any laws by collecting CITES listed species within a country that ratified the CITES convention without any additional clauses to prohibit collecting. You would only be breaking the law if you sent those specimens to another country without CITES permits. Adam. |
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Post by jonathan on Aug 7, 2013 10:41:34 GMT -8
Thanks Adam. There's always something to learn from experts like yourself  . Thanks God, there are no CITES listed species in my area "Satyrinae". Nonetheless, caution and due diligince should be excercised when collecting in a foreign country and there must be respect towards the countries laws. The Turks hate people running with a net, most probably even with a collecting permit as cultural values go beyond laws so the best thing to do is to stay away from such countries. I'm sure that poachers know were and what to do in such situations and that such events will not stop them. In fact, do you notice that there are several insects available for sale from Brazil for example, despite its rigid laws on collecting? |
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Post by multicaudata on Aug 8, 2013 20:24:43 GMT -8
"Thanks God, there are no CITES listed species in my area Satyrinae"
Not for long perhaps -- I would imagine that our Sierra Nevada Oeneis "chryxus" ivallda will get listed sooner or later, if not by CITES then by the Endangered Species Act...
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. Thanks God, there are no CITES listed species in my area "Satyrinae". Nonetheless, caution and due diligince should be excercised when collecting in a foreign country and there must be respect towards the countries laws. The Turks hate people running with a net, most probably even with a collecting permit as cultural values go beyond laws so the best thing to do is to stay away from such countries. I'm sure that poachers know were and what to do in such situations and that such events will not stop them. In fact, do you notice that there are several insects available for sale from Brazil for example, despite its rigid laws on collecting?