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Post by jaguarae on Dec 28, 2013 1:36:56 GMT -8
I 've just bought this Parnassius in auction (not internet) and i wonder if it's realy P. stoliczkanus on the right and P. hardwicki on the left ? Is someone can confirm this ideas ? Thank you   |
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Post by homard on Dec 28, 2013 3:59:52 GMT -8
Yes this is almost correct. You were not cheated Left column - P. hardwickii Gray, 1831, two upper specimens. Bottom specimen - P. orleans Oberthur, 1890, female! Right column - P. stoliczkanus C & R Felder, 1864. |
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Post by teinopalpus on Dec 28, 2013 5:28:48 GMT -8
As for 2 P.hardwickii it is sure.
Alex is of course correct also about P.orleans, but I think label under specimen will show another locality as Sikkim, because specimen is different from orleans ssp.rikitai which is as far as I know only ssp. of orleans occuring in Sikkim.
As for 2 Parnassius on right side from Satpara, Pakistan, it is more difficult. It is surely or stoliczkanus or stenosemus. But specimens were correctly labeled in time. Anyway in last years several ssp. were moved from species "stoliczkanus" to species "stenosemus" after recent genetic studies. Although appearnace of these spp. is more close to stoliczkanus than stenosemus. Together with lack of material from this now very dangerous region .... and you have complicate situation. Anyway you can be sure you bought great specimens.
Parnassius stoliczkanus ssp.davidi - is described from Bura Deosai which is just south from Satpara, it is most northward occuring ssp of stoliczkanus
Parnassius stenosemus ssp.nicevillei - Burzil Pass, this ssp was moved from stoliczkanus to stenosemus in last Weiss-Rose work.
Parnassius stenosemus ssp.rileyi - Deosai Range, this ssp was moved from stoliczkanus to stenosemus in last Weiss-Rose work.
Jan
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Post by jaguarae on Dec 28, 2013 7:49:13 GMT -8
Thank you for your answer and your precision ! In fact ,there's Lachin Lachong (été 1895) for the one at the top on the left, and Gnalong (été 1894)for the middle one on the left ! For the bottom's one it's the complement of information is Siao-lou (chasseurs indigènes  ) |
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Post by teinopalpus on Dec 28, 2013 10:27:46 GMT -8
Siao-lou ? Sometimes is not easy to find where are "old named localities" situated. But we have some sites except maps which can help. tpittaway.tripod.com/china/chigaz.htmSo Siao-lou should be situated on Yaan-Kangding road in Sichuan, China. According to look of specimen it should be correct. Both Lachin Lachong and Gnalong are cited as north Sikkim localities in some literature, so they are correct. Jan |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 28, 2013 10:54:17 GMT -8
Fisher (1948, Entomologist, 81: 217):
Siao Lu means "Little Road," and is the shortest way from Yaan (Yachow) to Kanting (Tachienlu). Distance about 150 miles. The road runs up the Ya River gorges and then crosses low hills to the pretty basin of Tienchuan. Rejoining the river, it climbs through more gorges to Liangloukow, where there is a fork. One branch passes over the Rainscreen Mountains at Ma-anshan; this is the shortest pass (10,000 ft.), but very steep. The other branch, followed by the motor road, goes over the Erlangshan, with landslides every half mile in the rainy season, and down into the Tung Valley at Lutingkiao. Here it joins the Talu, and soon the Maanshan branch, going on the Wasze-kow, where it turns west up the Kanting River to Tachienlu.
Adam.
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Post by homard on Dec 29, 2013 1:49:52 GMT -8
For the bottom's one it's the complement of information is Siao-lou (chasseurs indigènes ) Wow! It's not from Oberthur's collection per chance? I'm recalling that he had such labels, particularly with 'chasseurs indigenes' Fisher (1948, Entomologist, 81: 217): Siao Lu means "Little Road," ................ Adam. Bravo! One enigma lesser Alex |
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Post by jaguarae on Dec 29, 2013 9:48:18 GMT -8
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Post by gauthier on Jan 7, 2014 3:25:10 GMT -8
Hello
Someone have the Oberthur 1890 original paper of the description of Parnassius orleans? (3pp.)
I can't found it!
THANKS
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 7, 2014 7:00:19 GMT -8
I don't have a copy of that either, so if anyone does have one I would also like to see it.
Adam.
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mygos
Full Member
Posts: 230
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Post by mygos on Jan 7, 2014 12:03:57 GMT -8
Hi Gauthier,
I may be able to help, but I need the complete reference ?
A+, Michel
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Post by gauthier on Jan 7, 2014 22:34:56 GMT -8
Hello Michel
The problem is, this publication has been made appart. Not in the Etudes d'Entomologie. So the exact reference is simply:
1890. Description d'une espèce nouvelle de lépidoptère appartenant au genre Parnassius. (Rennes) : 3 pp.
I presume it is hide somewhere on a shelf!
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mygos
Full Member
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Post by mygos on Jan 8, 2014 1:43:25 GMT -8
First thing is to look in the corresponding volumes of the Zoological Record, therefore I checked in year 1890, 91 and 92 and found this :   From which we can learn that Parnassius orleans was described in Fascicule XIV of Etudes d'entomologie, and was mentionned again in Fascicule XVI ! I have to check in my copy of Etudes d'entomologie which I have in a complete state, but is binded, therefore scan will not be easy to make ... A+, Michel PS : If someone can explain how to upload reasonnable size picture, I would be happy (I use hostingpics.net and I use the direct link as all the other ones do not seem to work ...) |
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mygos
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Post by mygos on Jan 8, 2014 2:34:58 GMT -8
This is confirmed in the "Tables générales systématiques et alphabétiques" published by Constant Houlbert in 1920 !  A+, Michel |
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mygos
Full Member
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Post by mygos on Jan 8, 2014 6:11:03 GMT -8
adam, I have just send you both papers in pdf ! gauthier, I need your email adress For the forum, here is just an extract of the papers : Oberthur - Lépidoptères du genre Parnassius - 1891    Oberthur - Lépidoptères du Pérou et du Thibet - 1892    A+, Michel
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