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Post by wollastoni on Oct 5, 2013 2:05:33 GMT -8
Well the "Lost World" is still lost... This expedition has costed hundred thousands of dollars financed by National Geographic, WWF, governments and so on.
It is thus totally unlikely to see other Delias from there in the near future.
FYI, the female of Delias lemoulti (ignored for decades due to its ressemblance with Delias timorensis) has been described by Turlin.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 5, 2013 2:14:42 GMT -8
BTW my Delias cumanau is for sale at discount price for 1 million euros if someone want it ... :-)
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Post by nomad on Oct 5, 2013 4:10:07 GMT -8
The Foja mountains are gladly  quite lost for the loggers of the rain-forest of New Guinea because they are too steep and remote. The first Naturalist there was Jared Diamond in 1979 and it was what he found that resulted in the two major expeditions which will hopefully show the Indonesians why they need to secure this diverse area. I love this from the National Geographic magazine Brother Henk [ Van Mastright ] catches a medium-sized butterfly with blunt-ended tweezers he spreads its wings which are deep black with J- shaped markings in gleaming white: Oh, " this is great,great, great"! he says, a huge smile on his white bearded face. " Surely a new species to science." Though he is a Franciscan lay brother and not formally trained biologist, he's spent decades studying the butterflies of Western New Guinea and knows them as well as anyone. If Brother Henk have never seen this, no one has. |
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Post by nomad on Oct 5, 2013 4:17:43 GMT -8
BTW my Delias cumanau is for sale at discount price for 1 million euros if someone want it ... :-) If you sell your specimen for one million euros to perhaps a wealthy Japanese collector, you could visit the Foja Mountains  yourself and perhaps you would be kind enough to take me. We would have to have helicopters to drop us into the mountains as Jared and his small team did.  A expedition will cost a lot, so do not sell the cumanau for a bargain price. |
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 5, 2013 7:22:23 GMT -8
1 million euros is already a bargain price ! ;-)
Love the sentence about Henk van Mastrigt, thanks for sharing Peter.
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Post by simosg on Oct 5, 2013 10:29:42 GMT -8
BTW my Delias cumanau is for sale at discount price for 1 million euros if someone want it ... :-) Is the price with shipping? Why has this expedtion been so expensive? Hannes |
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 5, 2013 10:36:21 GMT -8
Shipping is generously offered.
Why so expensive ?
It took them several weeks to reach the Foja mounts, they have used helicopters, hundreds of local porters, decades of worldwide specialists, indonesian and papuan tips...
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Post by simosg on Oct 5, 2013 10:49:36 GMT -8
But the Foja mountains are 200 km near to Jayapura. Why can't you sit in a helicopter at Jayapura and get out of the heli at Foja mountains one hour later?
Hannes
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 5, 2013 11:03:46 GMT -8
Sure. But it is not the summit who was interesting, it is the jungle from the summit to the sea. And to progress in that jungle you need a lot of people and material.
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 5, 2013 12:21:34 GMT -8
Advancing in real tropical jungle without trail is a very exhausting experience.
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Post by nomad on Oct 5, 2013 12:29:00 GMT -8
I bet if they could get the permits, the Japanese would send in a small party by helicopters to collect Delias in the Foja Mtns. The two large very successful scientific expeditions involved a lot of people but Jared Diamond only had a very small party in 1979. Perhaps he did not reach the same remote area as the later expeditions? It is amazing where lepidopterists have been able to get to in recent years by the use of helicopters and what wonderful butterflies they have found which include Delias species. What obviously makes the Foja mountain Delias so rare is that no one is able to go and collect there. If collectors could access the area how rare would those Delias really be in nature?. To me what is really exciting is that there are still unexplored areas in New Guinea where new species of butterflies can still be discovered. I am not sure but I have been told the recent Hindenburg Wall expedition to the Star Mountains did not turn up any new Delias?. I believe helicopters drop people off, in such a open place as shown in the above Foja mountain image and they work down from there or in fact is this clearing on a mountain much lower than the surrounding ones, so ideal Delias collecting habitat straight from the chopper!
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 5, 2013 12:37:21 GMT -8
"how rare would those Delias really be in nature?"
For Fojian Delias, I hope we will never know as it would mean the Foja remain forested... but I am afraid it will soon be a huge palm oil field like the whole rest of New Guinea, to make cheeseburgers and Nutella for Western people.
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Post by nomad on Oct 5, 2013 12:55:36 GMT -8
Yes indeed quite right. The exploitation of West Papua benefits a lot of people but rarely the indigenous people. Lets hope the only way into the Foja mountains remains by helicopters carrying scientists [ or just butterfly collectors ] and there is no open access to this pristine wilderness.
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Post by lepidofrance on Oct 6, 2013 7:05:17 GMT -8
In this book (english title : Collapse) : Effondrement. Comment les sociétés décident de leur disparition ou de leur survie (Gallimard, NRF essais, 2006), ISBN 2-07-077672-7 ((en) Collapse, 2005) Jared Diamond wrote very interesting pages about New Guinea and PNG. As a whole, the book is a "must". To provide some photos about this page topics ( Delias) : 1. A good bargain : one million euros (special discount given by Wollastoni) : Attachment Deleted2. B. Turlin (who described D. lemoulti female) and Wollastoni in Baliem Valley (the guy in the group center does not belong to the Lepidopterists of France Association and actually is not the LFA Chairman) Attachment Deleted3. Wollastoni studying the Henk van Mastrigt's collection in Jayapura Attachment Deleted |
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 6, 2013 7:18:02 GMT -8
Thanks for the book JM, I will buy it.
And thanks for these good remembering, if I remember well, the Delias I was photographing was the extremely rare Delias pulla !!!
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quite lost for the loggers of the rain-forest of New Guinea because they are too steep and remote. The first Naturalist there was Jared Diamond in 1979 and it was what he found that resulted in the two major expeditions which will hopefully show the Indonesians why they need to secure this diverse area. I love this from the National Geographic magazine
yourself and perhaps you would be kind enough to take me. We would have to have helicopters to drop us into the mountains as Jared and his small team did. 
A expedition will cost a lot, so do not sell the cumanau for a bargain price. 
