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Post by cabintom on Mar 19, 2014 9:49:39 GMT -8
Well, since this group is so very confusing to ID, and since Ive been collecting several different specimens/species, I figured I'd start a thread to keep all the IDing in one spot, and to aid in comparison of different specimens. Some of my specimens have been previously IDed (or I'm confident with my own ID) so I'll start with those: Papilio chrapkowskoides Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted(Notes: Caught 23/XII/2013 Field interspersed with clumps of trees, top of Albertine rift escarpment, Bogoro, Ituri, DRC / Wingspan ~8.2cm / Abdomen tip : somewhat like the small end of an egg) Papilio nireus nireus Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted Attachment Deleted(Notes: Caught 1/III/2014 Edge of the Ituri Forest, along muddy banks of the Tumani River, near the village of Mbogi, Ituri, DRC / Wingspan ~10cm) Papilio sosia pulchra Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted(Notes: Caught 2/XII/2013 Rainforest, east of Kisangani, Tshopo, DRC / Wingspan ~10.5cm / abdomen tip "well-rounded") |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 19, 2014 10:17:01 GMT -8
The important point to note here too is that the tip of the abdomen in nireus is distinctly pointed, as your picture shows. This is an important character to distinguish nireus and sosia, which otherwise look very similar.
Adam.
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Post by cabintom on Mar 19, 2014 10:34:37 GMT -8
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Post by cabintom on Mar 19, 2014 10:40:55 GMT -8
The important point to note here too is that the tip of the abdomen in nireus is distinctly pointed, as your picture shows. This is an important character to distinguish nireus and sosia, which otherwise look very similar. Adam. I'm hoping I'll be able to capture more specimens of both species. With how narrow the bands are on the nireus specimen, I'm wondering if that's a good diagnostic for identification. P. sosia and P. chrapkowskoides seem much more difficult to distinguish... and, if I'm not mistaken, P. chrapkowskoides is quite variable. Tom |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 19, 2014 14:17:10 GMT -8
P. sosia and nireus do not have a white postdiscal band on the forewing underside. Yes the blue band of sosia is generally broader than nireus but this is variable.
The main problem here is do you only have chrapkowskoides (= bromius), or also chrapkowskii and maybe other species as well?
Adam.
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Post by cabintom on Mar 20, 2014 1:19:28 GMT -8
P. sosia and nireus do not have a white postdiscal band on the forewing underside. Yes the blue band of sosia is generally broader than nireus but this is variable. The main problem here is do you only have chrapkowskoides (= bromius), or also chrapkowskii and maybe other species as well? Adam. Good to know about the FW underside postdiscal band. Thanks!  As for your question... well, that's exactly what I'm wondering as well. LOL What I've found via the internet is that: - For chrapkowskii "the satiny markings on the underside of the wings are better developed than in P. chrapkowskoides" (from atbutterflies.com), but the distribution is described as "Uganda (east and central), Kenya (highlands), Tanzania" - There are 2 subspecies for P. chrapkowskoides: 1) P. c. chrapkowskoides (Democratic Republic of Congo (east), Uganda (south-west), Rwanda, Burundi, Tanzania (west)) 2) P. c. nurettini (several west African countries, Congo, Angola, Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda (west)) I'm not sure where Ituri would lie within the described ranges. Is it considered "east" or "north-east"? I wonder... - There are a few other similar species, but the described ranges mostly place them to the south-east of here. So perhaps I only have the 3 species? (though I have my doubts... inexperienced doubts, but doubts nonetheless) Tom |
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Post by africaone on Mar 20, 2014 1:45:30 GMT -8
the confusion came from the fact that "bromius" had to be replaced (for homonymy) and chrapkowskoides was choosen quite quickly as the available name to replace it (seemingly only for a type locality reason).
The main question is : How many species related to "bromius" occur in Uganda and North Eastern Congo ?
I think there are probably two (one big that is the same as in all the central bloc forest and a small that occur in the Eastern part in mid or high altitude forest). Then the name choice of chrapkowskoides only because of his type locality is not enough.
The first question to solve the problem is how many species are involved and after that to decide which name must be used.
If there is only one, then the actual nomeclature is more or less correct (probably with a third ssp to add). If there are two or more, a complete nomemclatural study must be done.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 20, 2014 9:30:06 GMT -8
the confusion came from the fact that "bromius" had to be replaced (for homonymy) and chrapkowskoides was choosen quite quickly as the available name to replace it (seemingly only for a type locality reason). Thierry is correct that bromius was replaced because it is a junior homonym. The reason that chrapkowskoides was 'chosen' as the replacement is simply because that was the oldest available name applicable to the species as a whole, but nominate bromius (type locality: Ashanti) was replaced by nurettini Koçak, 1983, as there was no old name available for that subspecies. Adam. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 20, 2014 9:43:15 GMT -8
There is actually a third subspecies of Papilio chrapkowskoides, ssp nerminae Koçak, 1983 from Sao Thome, which is itself a replacement name for furvus Joicey & Talbot, 1926.
Adam.
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Post by africaone on Mar 21, 2014 0:12:58 GMT -8
nerminae seems more probably a "good species" (as many ST/P endemics, ps : I never see this, if someone can post images of it  ), anyway it is a distinct taxon from the continental one. The question remain of how many species of "bromius" occur in uganda and adjacent areas, and the name(s) that must be applied ! |
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robert61
Full Member
Posts: 184
Country: GERMANY
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Post by robert61 on Mar 21, 2014 4:00:21 GMT -8
I had last year one A- male of Papilio nerminae from Sao Tome and was lucky that I still have the Pictures .The 2 antannae have been replaced, they might be Little longer in real.
Robert
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Post by africaone on Mar 21, 2014 4:26:17 GMT -8
waow ... thanks Robert ! seems quite distinct !
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Post by africanentomology on Mar 24, 2014 11:31:07 GMT -8
Papilio nerminae is a good species and very rare !!! I have been six times at São Tomé and I have not seen many. Only one female in 14 years. I have check during two days all "Citrus" (lemon tree) at Bombaïm to find caterpillars.... Unfortunately nothing...
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Post by cabintom on Mar 28, 2014 11:32:16 GMT -8
I forgot to post this one:  Caught 15/II/2014 Edge of Ituri Forest, near the village of Mbogi, Ituri, DRC This female is in bad shape, I know, but based off of size I believe she is P. chrapkowskoides. Tom |
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Post by cabintom on May 12, 2014 10:29:04 GMT -8
Here's another specimen to add to this list. I caught it on 8/IV/2014 in the small town of Adi, Ituri, DRC, which is practically in South Sudan/Uganda. I believe it is P. nireus, but that's based on the width of the green bands, which Adam has clearly communicated isn't an entirely reliable way to ID these insects. The specimen is female (obviously).  |
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), anyway it is a distinct taxon from the continental one.
