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Post by lordpandarus on May 28, 2014 16:10:14 GMT -8
I've seen this referenced in older books as looking in between an Agrias and Prepona, but never seen a picture
It's likely somekind of hybrid but I'd like to know what the original specimen looked like
Does anyone have an illustration of it?
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Post by prillbug4 on May 28, 2014 18:20:30 GMT -8
I looked it up, and the spelling of the species name is saruman.
Jeff Prill
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terry2014
Junior Member
Birthday April 14 1938
Posts: 33 
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Post by terry2014 on May 29, 2014 3:05:07 GMT -8
It is sarumani. This specimen was in the collection of the Saruman butterfly company run by Paul Smart . More information can be found in Appendix 42 of his book. It did prove to be a hybrid I believe. Terry
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Post by lordpandarus on May 29, 2014 16:24:01 GMT -8
That's where I read about it
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Post by joee30 on Jun 5, 2014 15:16:56 GMT -8
Nice. For some reason, I imagine a white wizard saying "March to Helm's Deep. Leave none alive!." lol
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 9:43:38 GMT -8
Nice. For some reason, I imagine a white wizard saying "March to Helm's Deep. Leave none alive!." lol Or a strung out collector who finally got one in the net- "precious, yes my precious" |
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Post by africaone on Jun 8, 2014 23:41:57 GMT -8
It is sarumani. This specimen was in the collection of the Saruman butterfly company run by Paul Smart . More information can be found in Appendix 42 of his book. It did prove to be a hybrid I believe. Terry does anyone know if this is a tribute to Tolkien? |
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Post by johnnyboy on Jun 9, 2014 0:05:06 GMT -8
Yes it was named after the wizard. Paul Smart was a rather aloof person, I visted his "Museum" in the mid 1970's and found him to be rude and dismissive. I was only around 15 years old and I never went back again after my experience. Everything at the Saruman was sold off at auction a few years later.
I have heard that Paul Smart is still alive but in very poor health, even though I didn't like him I was sorry to hear this.
Johnny
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Post by krupten on Jun 9, 2014 4:01:55 GMT -8
when I was dealing with Paul - he mentioned that "sarumani" was a hybrid - so he knew that all along. Paul was ok - but as mentioned a bit "aloof" - nice choice of words there. I bought a number of things from him - but he was pricey! His wife Gita did not strike me as a lep person and was evasive when talking bugshop.
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Post by krupten on Jun 9, 2014 4:10:08 GMT -8
when I was dealing with Paul - he mentioned that "sarumani" was a hybrid - so he knew that all along. Paul was ok - but as mentioned a bit "aloof" - nice choice of words there. I bought a number of things from him - but he was pricey! His wife Gita did not strike me as a lep person and was evasive when talking bugshop.
also - it was the company named for Saruman - reason according to Paul - "he was the wizard who could summon all from any point in the world". Sorry to hear about his failing health - but it takes us all - I had my first heartattack - so I am now on the recovery track and have to curtail my collecting for a bit. Cheers
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Post by lordpandarus on Jun 9, 2014 15:53:18 GMT -8
Paul Smart did make one of the best butterfly books ever
It's one of the few books where the specimen colors look absolutely natural (as you would look at the butterfly in the flesh)
I wonder what kind of lighting he used to photograph the plates in his book
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Post by bobw on Jun 10, 2014 6:20:00 GMT -8
Prepona sarumani Smart, 1975 is an intergeneric hybrid, presumed to be between Prepona praeneste abrupta and Agrias claudina lugens. I seem to remember that there were photos of Prepona/Agrias hybrids on the old Agrias site, which was a sister site of the Papilionidae site, both now defunct. However, these were not from Peru and were hybrids of different A. claudina subspecies with other species of Prepona. I think that most of them looked like A. claudina with strange, dull colours.
I don't think you'll find many people who met Paul Smart who will have anything good to say about him or his wife Gita. Johnny's description is fairly accurate, although I'd add the word pompous. I had a lot of dealings with his company as he did get some very good material, but I always dealt with his curator - Chris Samson, who was very amenable.
Bob
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Post by lordpandarus on Jun 10, 2014 11:32:17 GMT -8
He sold butterflies?
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Post by bobw on Jun 10, 2014 14:20:55 GMT -8
Yes, he was probably the biggest specimen dealer in England in the 70s and early 80s until he sold up due to poor health. |
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Post by lordpandarus on Jun 11, 2014 14:05:45 GMT -8
I see. I started buying butterflies in the mid 80's
But getting info about who sold them was very scarce, there was no internet to check a list of dealers. I found out about "The Butterfly Company" and that's all I knew about for a long time
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