saye
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Posts: 82
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Post by saye on Jul 11, 2015 1:21:57 GMT -8
Initially found this female with a dark brown, dauby abdomen end. Right after, its insides appeared to leak. I would like to ask anyone with some experience if this is a known occurrence, since I had never seen it. I reared it from an L3 F0 larva. I didn't witness the actual emerging, but since the butterfly did not leave the place the pupa was attached to, I have to assume it emerged like this, or that something must have happened as it breached out of the exuvia. Last photo (second row) is the now dried area before the butterfly took off in the morning (I found it unexpected that it could fly).      |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 11, 2015 10:02:33 GMT -8
It looks as if the tip of the abdomen broke off as the butterfly pulled itself out of the pupa. It is amazing that the butterfly actually survived.
Adam.
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saye
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Post by saye on Jul 11, 2015 14:16:20 GMT -8
It did appear as if there was a big tear by the look of it, but I found nothing other then fluids (below the butterfly). In the exuvia, the first abdominal segments, which join the cremaster, have some black staining. I guess it's not easy to understand if this was a consequence of pupation or not.
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Post by eurytides on Jul 13, 2015 18:41:29 GMT -8
I have seen this before a couple of times. I'm not sure if it's the same mechanism as your case or what causes it, but on occasion, a butterfly will have a defect in the abdomen and that's just how it was formed. I've seen this in the mid abdomen ventrally or sometimes laterally. Sometimes there's discoloration if only a small amount of intra-abdominal contents leak out and it seals off, other times you can see a gaping hole. Just like humans, butterflies can have birth defects too.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 14, 2015 1:03:13 GMT -8
I also sometimes see tears in the middle or side of the abdomen just after the butterfly emerges. These may possibly be caused by the skin at that point failing to detach from the pupal case, but alternatively it is possible that they could be caused by the spines on the legs of the butterfly after it has emerged, especially if the butterfly is disturbed while expanding its wings.
Another possibility in Saye's case is that there was internal rupturing at the anus as the butterfly emerged from the pupa.
Adam.
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saye
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Post by saye on Jul 15, 2015 13:30:20 GMT -8
@ eurytides
I do well agree that defective development will be seen here and there, but this appeared quite abrupt so I wanted to probe if it was the consequence of something more mechanical which I could avoid by doing x. Then again, it could have been a relation of both.
@ Adam
I've had similar experience with some adults (P. brassicae) with leaks on wing veins. A leaked drop of hemolymph would appear (but not flow, remaining as a globule) on the adults that struggled more to reach a perching point to dry their wings. Stress definitely plays a part in these cases.
Thanks.
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Post by eurytides on Jul 15, 2015 16:27:30 GMT -8
There are probably multiple factors, and we may never know if the defects I've seen are caused by the same etiologies as the defects you or Adam have seen. Sometimes it may indeed be mechanical trauma. However, I've also seen butterflies emerge without any struggle and their abdomens just come out that way. I've also seen this happen with wings with exuding hemolymph as well as hemolymph leaking "inside" the wings forming a bulge even though nothing leaks outside the wing.
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saye
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Posts: 82
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Post by saye on Jul 18, 2015 0:36:00 GMT -8
Agreed. And, because you mentioned it, I also saw those wing bulges in the same species.
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