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Post by leopold76 on Oct 19, 2015 13:03:07 GMT -8
Hi everybody, I collect Lucanidae of the world and I research exotic species. (All except French). (If you want I can give you big and little Lucanus cervus in return for your species  )  You think it's Lucanus cervus fi. pentaphyllus ? hemipentaphyllus ? or tetraphyllus ? Regards |
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Post by zdenol123 on Oct 19, 2015 15:00:05 GMT -8
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Post by leopold76 on Oct 20, 2015 1:08:32 GMT -8
Thank you very much for this picture !  So I think it is : Lucanus cervus spp. cervus fi. pentaphyllus |
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Post by leopold76 on Oct 20, 2015 1:39:33 GMT -8
between synonyms and forms there is only:
ssp :
- akbesianus Planet,1896
- capreolus Füessly,1775 (priodont form of spp cervus)
- cervus (Linnaeus, 1758)
- fabianii Mulsant et Godart,1855
- judaicus Planet,1902
- laticornis Deyrolle,1864
- macrophyllus Kraatz,1860
- maxillaris Motschulsky,1845
- mediadonta Lacroix, 1978
- orientalis (=ibericus?) Kraatz,1860
- poujadei Planet,1897
- tauricus Motschulsky, 1845 => syn.: pentaphyllus Reiche, 1853
- turcicus Sturm,1843
- scapulodonta Weinreich, 1963
Aberrations of L. cervus spp. cervus :
- hexaphyllus Abeille de Perrin, 1867
- heptaphyllus Abeille de Perrin, 1867
- pentaphyllus Reiche,1853
- pontbrianti Mulsant, 1839
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Post by Bugman on Oct 20, 2015 7:51:48 GMT -8
This is not a pentaphyllus, just a "normal" one. As far as I know the only valid subspecies are:
cervus
akbesianus
judaicus
laticornis
turcicus
the other ones are just occasional or geographical varieties.
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Post by leopold76 on Oct 21, 2015 4:26:14 GMT -8
I don't think so  I will do a photo of a "normal" L. cervus and you will see de difference  |
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Post by zdenol123 on Oct 21, 2015 7:42:51 GMT -8
where you all finding this crap....cervus has only 2 valid subspecies ( cervus cervus and cervus judaicus ). The rest are synonyms. Forms, var, aberrations having no real value, ARE NOT supported by the Code, what means, that all these crappy names are invalid and should not be cited or used ! Loads of revisions has been written about this....But I guess I m in the wrong place to talk about the scientific point of view |
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Post by leopold76 on Oct 21, 2015 17:19:07 GMT -8
What code do you speak? I've written what the OPIE written . I don't know if it's a référence .. |
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Post by zdenol123 on Oct 22, 2015 0:15:54 GMT -8
The International Code of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN or ICZN Code)
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Post by Entomofou on Oct 22, 2015 12:26:50 GMT -8
According the Catalogue of Palearctic coleoptera - Volume 3 - Lobl & Smetana, 2006 :
Valid subspecies :
Lucanus cervus cervus (Linnaeus, 1758)
Lucanus cervus judaicus Planet, 1902
All other names are synonyms.
Lucanus orientalis Kraatz, 1890
Lucanus ibericus Motschulsky, 1845
are valid species
According the Catalogue des coléoptères de France, 2014 :
Lucanus cervus cervus (Linnaeus, 1758)
Lucanus pontbrianti Mulsant, 1839
are valid species
For the distinction between the different forms (fabiani, pentaphyllus, hexaphyllus, etc...) see Faune de France 63, Coléoptères sacarbéides - Paulian, 1959
Stéphane
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Post by leopold76 on Oct 22, 2015 18:26:03 GMT -8
Hi, Thanks Entomofou. Do you think It's a Pentaphyllus ? PS : Les Français ont toujours raison  |
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Post by Entomofou on Oct 23, 2015 1:43:02 GMT -8
For making the diagnosis, we need a complete view of the upper side and particularly of the mandibles.
In the Catalogue des coléoptères de France, the varieties are not recognized...
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Post by leopold76 on Oct 23, 2015 12:35:37 GMT -8
Salut Entomofou,
Why do you want mandibles ? For pentaphyllus there is only the antennas, no ?
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Post by Entomofou on Oct 25, 2015 14:08:05 GMT -8
Paulian uses mandibles (apex, plce of the median teeth, etc...) + antennas + geographical origine...
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