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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 22, 2015 12:33:27 GMT -8
Rich,
Normal aribbas is well known from Sapa, and also occurs in Hagiang. I would be very surprised if a second subspecies would be present in the same area.
Indeed, helenusoides was only discovered recently on the isolated mountains near Dalat, and sukkiti occurs in Central Vietnam and Laos, but aribbas is rather widely distributed from the north of Vietnam westwards.
Adam.
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Post by timmsyrj on Nov 23, 2015 11:06:23 GMT -8
Yes I agree it would be a surprise but Stichophthalma neumogeni regulus flies on Sa Pa and then this strange one has occurred this year from mountains nearby (maybe they are from this place as my first specimen came with Sa Pa data) which as of yet no one has been able to identify, I've contacted a few experts in the field including Monastyrski and they have no idea.
It maybe just a local form, arribas has been around for ages but have you ever come across this colouration before? Chilasa epycides imitata is also new 2003. Stichophthalma eamsei descovered in 2000 is rather large and widespread and devyatkini 2012 was found on a remote plateau so it's not impossible.
Rich
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 23, 2015 13:08:19 GMT -8
No, I have never seen a female like this before. It will certainly be interesting to see if more are found in future, if so it will need serious investigation.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 24, 2015 0:01:25 GMT -8
Things are getting even more interesting!
I just received an e-mail from calak with the following information from Thanh:
"regarding the issue of data of the papilio
I’d like to tell you something on it after getting the confirmation from the catcher who collected it
He told me that On JULY this year he came to TAY CON LINH mt , HA GIANG pro , NORTH VN 1400m to collect the teinopalpus there and collected some of this papilio so now correct the data of this papilo is from HA GIANG
I am very sorry for this mistake that make you trouble but I hope you understand my situation and forgive it".
Both M. lachinus and M. sciron occur together in Hagiang, so it is possible that the aberrant female could be the result of natural hybridization between the two, although I suspect it is just an aberration of lachinus.
Adam.
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 18, 2016 4:37:26 GMT -8
I have just recieved a reply from Monastyrski regarding these, I forwarded the photo to him, and he is quite sure this is a pair of Meandrusa sciron hajiangensis, but as Adam says the tails are quite different and it's much larger than M.sciron as can be seen in the group photo, I've only seen a photo of hajiangensis that Adam sent me recently and it's quite different hopefully more specimens will appear this season, if not, it may be because it is a hybrid.
I have to say I can't see much difference between nominate sciron and hajiangensis but then I've only seen males and lachinus males, except helenusoides, are not very different either in appearances, mostly the females differ.
Rich
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Post by palikan on Oct 30, 2016 0:17:31 GMT -8
This autumn these females were for sale on eBay. Very interesting... I contacted the seller and I asked for information about the locality. He wrote to me: I know that this butterfly often fly in TAY CON LINH mt , HA GIANG pro But this year is the first year that I collected in MU CANG CHAI mt , YEN BAI province 1700m, 7/2016 and we found out that this butterfly flying here also So the locality is correct. Pavel      |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 30, 2016 3:02:55 GMT -8
Very interesting. This eBay seller is very good about data, and will check his records if there are any doubts about them. Yen Bai is just south of Lao Cai (Sapa) and Hagiang, so I am sure the data is correct. I still think that these are Meandrusa lachinus, not sciron, but it is really interesting to see a series of them.
Adam.
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Post by palikan on Oct 31, 2016 9:31:34 GMT -8
On this locality also flying normal Meandrusa lachinus (females with white stripes) in same time.
Pavel
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2016 14:18:52 GMT -8
On this locality also flying normal Meandrusa lachinus (females with white stripes) in same time. Pavel Now that is VERY interesting to know. That means one of two things ... either we have two forms of the same species, or there are two different species. Adam. |
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Post by timmsyrj on Nov 1, 2016 0:08:32 GMT -8
On this locality also flying normal Meandrusa lachinus (females with white stripes) in same time. Pavel Now that is VERY interesting to know. That means one of two things ... either we have two forms of the same species, or there are two different species. Adam. Or data is not as reliable as thought, I know Thanh does provide data as correct as he knows from his catchers, but I have found his collectors tend to move around quite a bit, indeed I have specimens of stichophthalma from him which I have since found out are from a different mountain range, he can only supply the data he's given, he does apologies and corrects it if questioned and it is wrong, also Thanh is very busy traveling around to his catchers and trying to set up catchers in new areas so most of the specimens are listed by his sister from boxes from his Sa Pa based collectors, these guys collect in Ha Giang, Yen Bai and Lau Chua provinces on probably half a dozen mountain ranges. In the past I've looked for stichophthalma eamsei from different mountain locations, which Thanh used to name in his listings, but his sister now only lists them as central, south or north Vietnam, which for me, trying to show geographical difference is impossible. Rich |
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Post by palikan on Nov 1, 2016 2:50:50 GMT -8
This interesting butterfly is still catching only in July (year 2015 also 2016.)
It would be useful to find out, whether have only one generation per year.
Pavel
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 1, 2016 5:35:02 GMT -8
Do you mean the unusual form in the photos, or Meandrusa lachinus in general? If this form only occurs once per year that would also be interesting to know.
M. lachinus has at least two generations, one in 'spring' and one in July-August, but there may be more than two generations in some localities.
Adam.
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Post by palikan on Nov 1, 2016 8:34:09 GMT -8
I mean this unusual form on photos. Never seen for sale in spring.
Maybe there was not "catcher" in the spring (on this place). On spring - only normal females for sale.
Pavel
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 2, 2016 7:32:24 GMT -8
Thank you for the clarification. Of course it is possible that there aren't collectors in the right area at the time it flies in spring, but I suspect that if it is not a separate species it is more likely the yellow form is only found in the wet season due to environmental factors affecting phenotype (visible characters).
Adam.
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Post by palikan on Dec 15, 2020 7:31:24 GMT -8
Again one female for this interesting Meandrusa for sale on Ebay. North Vietnam  |
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