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Post by dynastes on May 18, 2016 12:45:09 GMT -8
ORNITHOPTERA PRIAMUS ssp. NOVUM GORONG Isl.ebay linkWho has any information about it? It is not a fake?
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Post by ornithorchid on May 19, 2016 10:04:13 GMT -8
Take a brush, a binocular and brush away some of the scales... Et voila!
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 19, 2016 10:11:07 GMT -8
The female looks close to hecuba, but the male looks different, which is rather surprising.
It could be a fake, however I don't think that brushing scales could remove yellow spots from the hindwings, which this specimen lacks. Of course there is also the possibility that the data is fake too, as I don't think priamus is known from Gorong Island.
Adam.
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Post by ornithorchid on May 19, 2016 10:12:16 GMT -8
By the way. Advertised as A1/A1-... Give me a break. It has pin holes in the HW and 3 obvious glued patches on sides of FW... It's A-/A2 repaired. eBay again.
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 20, 2016 8:19:56 GMT -8
You can't really blame eBay, it's the ebay sellers who are to blame. Mind you there's nothing new, I remember buying specimens at the AES back in the late 1970s, many were obviously repaired, and sometimes even had fake antennae.
Adam.
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Post by nomad on May 20, 2016 10:12:59 GMT -8
I would like to say that the seller, it one of the most reputable of any insect dealers. The specimens are not fakes, it is easy to see there has been no loss of scales. I cannot vouch for the locality but because priamus has not been previously been found in the Gorong Islands, it does not mean that it does not occur there. I would be surprised if it did not with the nominate being found on Seram and hecuba being found in the Kai Islands. hecuba is closer to the nominate than it is to poseidon.
The female shown is close to hecuba but it is plain to see there are major differences in the apical forewing shape, being rounded and not acute as in hecuba. All priamus are highly variable and very occasionally hecuba will lack the yellow costal spot but the male shown certainly seems to have a darker hindwing. The ebay male also lacks the green discal stripe which is constant in hecuba. Considering who is selling this, I will not doubt the locality at the moment but it would be ideal to see a complete series. Hopefully this may be a major new discovery as far as birdwings are concerned. Perhaps even the missing link between the nominate and hecuba?
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Post by aureus on May 21, 2016 2:23:01 GMT -8
It got this pair from a "not so old collection" (so the pair is quite fresh) and I´m quite sure that this locality is right. The collector was very precise with his collection-datas in his collection. Unfortunatly, I have only this single pair, which I think would be quite "a problem" to describe something from only one pair. The locality is really very interessting but (as I wrote in my ebay-describition) it is MAYBE a new subspecie. So I´m myself not really sure, what this maybe is. DEFINELTY, in comperison to other examples of ssp. hecuba in my collection, it looks different (male and female). So it would be good to find more examples from this locality...
Ad ornithorchid: if you have any doubt, I appreciate it to contact me and send me questions direclty (you can contact me via ebay or direclty from my homepage) which would be (I think) much more appropiate that writing any accusations or assumptions.
Ad "quality": yes (to Adam and ornithorchid), you are right. The quality is definelty not A1/A1- and I will correct this in ebay for this item.
JENS
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 21, 2016 5:29:42 GMT -8
Jens,
Indeed the locality is very interesting, and I agree that it would be difficult to describe a new subspecies from just one pair, particularly of a species like this one. It is good that you spent time to post here and let us know about it.
You can only go with the data on the specimen labels, and it is difficult to absolutely verify the data, since you didn't obtain them directly from a supplier, and sadly you can't ask the owner where he got them. The best way to confirm it would be to obtain more specimens, of course.
The male is very different, and doesn't look much like the nominate subspecies from Ceram either. I can see the similarity of the female to hecuba. Some of these smaller islands that are basically still unexplored do produce very interesting specimens from time to time.
Adam.
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Post by ornithorchid on May 21, 2016 6:58:56 GMT -8
It got this pair from a "not so old collection" (so the pair is quite fresh) and I´m quite sure that this locality is right. The collector was very precise with his collection-datas in his collection. Unfortunatly, I have only this single pair, which I think would be quite "a problem" to describe something from only one pair. The locality is really very interessting but (as I wrote in my ebay-describition) it is MAYBE a new subspecie. So I´m myself not really sure, what this maybe is. DEFINELTY, in comperison to other examples of ssp. hecuba in my collection, it looks different (male and female). So it would be good to find more examples from this locality... Ad ornithorchid: if you have any doubt, I appreciate it to contact me and send me questions direclty (you can contact me via ebay or direclty from my homepage) which would be (I think) much more appropiate that writing any accusations or assumptions. Ad "quality": yes (to Adam and ornithorchid), you are right. The quality is definelty not A1/A1- and I will correct this in ebay for this item. JENS Thank you Jens. My major point was on quality; when something has been repaired or fixed it can't be classified as A1-. Thank you for correcting you description. Hopefully no offence taken from your side. Emmanuel |
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