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Post by pardosa on May 31, 2017 10:21:58 GMT -8
Hello,
I bought an old insect collection with various insects, and 2 boxes of Ornithoptera and Troides species. The problem is that i bought this from the son of the owner, who died. So no Cites permit for them. Many of them where from the 80'. Is there a solution if i want to sell it in Europe?
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 31, 2017 12:42:24 GMT -8
If you are inside the EU and you want to sell them inside the EU there should be no problem, as far as I know. I am sure someone here more familiar with EU CITES regulations can add more detailed advice.
Adam.
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Post by pardosa on Jun 1, 2017 8:21:22 GMT -8
Tanks adam,
It would be nice if i can sell them during an insect fair. But i need to be sure cause it's serious matter.
Thanks anyway,
Seb
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Post by dynastor on Aug 24, 2017 15:09:08 GMT -8
Hello, Sorry but I'm sure you can not sell them, nor keep them ... according to law of course ... Adam, you say that there should be no problem selling them inside EU but I don't understand why ... could you sell them inside usa without any permits  I don't think so ... To sell them inside EU, an invoice from the seller with CITES number (refering to a legal export AND import permit) is enough. To sell them outside EU, it's more complicated, you have to ask for an export permit and your buyer must ask for an import permit. All the best from Auvernaux to all of us, François |
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Post by dynastor on Aug 24, 2017 15:12:06 GMT -8
All the best from Auvernaux to all of you !!!
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Post by Paul K on Aug 24, 2017 15:38:09 GMT -8
This is common misunderstanding of CITES. Species covered by CITES are not protected at all nationally.
For example Troides aeacus is not protected in Thailand and one can collect them and keep them legally, however if the specimen has to be taken out of Thailand then CITES permit is required to move it between the countries.
Within the country CITES species can be kept and resale without CITES permit unless one is under protection of specific country.
In short CITES was created to Control international trade of endangered species.
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Post by dynastor on Aug 24, 2017 16:41:52 GMT -8
So why did french sellers had serious problems with customs during some french fairs ?
I'm a french insect dealer and would really like to believe you ... if I could sell Ornithoptera without any permits in France, it would be a really good new for me !!! I don't sell them because i was sure it you needed CITES documents to do it.
I've just checked on french customs website and here what they say about Annexe B ...
"La circulation au sein de l'Union européenne est libre, mais il faut être en mesure justifier de l'acquisition légale de la marchandise (exemple : avoir une facture)"
So just an invoice is ok !?!?!
And Paulk and Adam were right ! Sorry ...
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Post by africaone on Aug 29, 2017 3:15:01 GMT -8
In "legal acquisition" there is "legal" where the law states to respect the No. CITES.
In any case, how could an Ornithoptera in Europe travel without being imported and obliged to obtain a CITES permit?
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Post by pardosa on Sept 4, 2017 5:32:40 GMT -8
Hello all of you,
I bought about 40 boxes of this old collection, most of the insects labeled are from the 80' years. The owner died and it's his soon who contacted me for buying it. I was expecting paper about the Ornithoptera and Troides specimens, but his son didn't find any cites permit or something looks like. How the owner get them? I don't know, maybe he catched them himself cause he traveled a lot... So now i have them, with no possibilities of trading, if i understand...
Thanks
S R
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Post by Paul K on Sept 4, 2017 5:43:20 GMT -8
Hello all of you, I bought about 40 boxes of this old collection, most of the insects labeled are from the 80' years. The owner died and it's his soon who contacted me for buying it. I was expecting paper about the Ornithoptera and Troides specimens, but his son didn't find any cites permit or something looks like. How the owner get them? I don't know, maybe he catched them himself cause he traveled a lot... So now i have them, with no possibilities of trading, if i understand... Thanks S R You could trade them within your country only, but not internationally, that is when you would need CITES permit. CITES were created in 1975 so I don't think in 80' much customs around the world cared to inspect bugs for permits. You would recognize if he collected them by him self as most of them would be in A- quality if come from wild. |
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Post by pardosa on Sept 7, 2017 1:50:53 GMT -8
Hello,
as you said most of them are A- or A2 specimens. You have a text showing that i can sell them without CITES permit in my own country? Some of them don't have any collecting data... i will show some specimens..
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Post by pardosa on Sept 7, 2017 1:59:31 GMT -8
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Post by joachim on Jun 27, 2018 16:14:26 GMT -8
Hello,
what couldyou do meanwile with your Ornithoptera and troides?
I have the same problem here.
best wishes
Joachim
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I don't think so ...
