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Post by panzerman on Mar 19, 2011 10:13:10 GMT -8
machaon montanus?  M+F John  Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Mar 19, 2011 10:14:02 GMT -8
machaon sachalinensis M John  Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Mar 19, 2011 10:15:47 GMT -8
machaon pikei M John Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Mar 19, 2011 10:16:59 GMT -8
machaon baijangensis M John  Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Mar 19, 2011 10:17:45 GMT -8
machaon dodi M John  Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Mar 19, 2011 10:18:22 GMT -8
drawer #4 John Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 20, 2011 8:33:00 GMT -8
John,
The correct spelling of #3 is baijianensis Huang & Murayama, 1992. However, that is really just a synonym of centralis.
With regard to your first photo above, this pair is true montanus. In Alpheraky's 1897 description he clearly states that it has an extra black crescent separating the blue and red parts of the hw anal eyespot as in sikkimensis. The specimen that you have labelled as montanus in the other machaon complex thread and my similar specimen are not actually montanus (the name is really hieromax because montanus is a homonym, as I have stated in my post in that thread), and to be honest I am not yet sure what these are!
Adam.
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Post by somewhatpeculiar on Mar 20, 2011 14:50:47 GMT -8
Very impressive.
I saw a subspecies "lapponica" listed somewhere. Does anybody know anything about what is special about that subspecies, where it's supposed to be flying or where I can find information about it?
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Post by panzerman on Mar 20, 2011 16:58:16 GMT -8
ssp. lapponica flies in Baltic Countries, ie Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland.
John
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 20, 2011 23:21:17 GMT -8
Unfortunately lapponica Verity, 1911 is not an available name as it was described at infrasubspecific rank.
Of course, machaon was originally described by Linnaeus from Sweden, so that is the nominate subspecies, whether Finnish specimens are also ssp. machaon is under investigation.
Probably 'somewhatpeculiar' has seen the name lapponica in a Russian source (book, pricelist etc) as the Russians apply that name to the population on the east slope of Polar Ural near Kharp. I do not believe this to be correct, and in any case as I just stated, the name lapponica is unavailable.
Adam.
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Post by somewhatpeculiar on Mar 21, 2011 4:17:03 GMT -8
I live (and for the moment breed machaon) in Sweden but so far I've not seen that subspecies mentioned here.
Comparing photos of machaon from south and north of sweden (north is where anything with the name lapponica should be) I can't see any visible difference between them.
That's why I'm asking.
"Unfortunately lapponica Verity, 1911 is not an available name as it was described at infrasubspecific rank."
What does infrasubspecifik rank mean? I'm not too familiar with the concept of different subspecies and why some butterfly variations are said to be subspecies and some not.
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Post by wolf on Mar 21, 2011 4:33:54 GMT -8
ssp. lapponica flies in Baltic Countries, ie Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland. John pffff... Baltic countries!? I'm kinda offended right now!  Norway, Sweden and Denmark is called Scandinavia. Finland is part of the nordic countries which contain Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Iceland. For the ssp. lapponica i've seen it mentioned on the funet.fi site. But i've always thought it was nominate that was flying up here. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 21, 2011 8:04:17 GMT -8
Description at infrasubspecific (IFS) rank basically means that the animal was named either as a quadrinomial (below the trinomial level of subspecies) or as a seasonal or sexual form or aberration rather than the name being specifically given to a population. IFS names are not recognised under the ICZN Code of Nomenclature, and while they can be used in popular circles they have no official standing. They should certainly never be used for species or subspecies, although there is nothing wrong with using them to designate a particular colour morph (eg. Papilio memnon agenor female form butlerianus or distantianus).
Wolf is of course right about Scandinavia being separate from the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia).
Adam.
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Post by panzerman on Mar 21, 2011 11:19:46 GMT -8
My apologies too Wolf, I had Lithuania on my mind, when I posted that reply.
John
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Post by wolf on Mar 21, 2011 11:54:22 GMT -8
hehe, no problem John. ;P Nice machaons btw |
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M+F
