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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 27, 2011 2:34:22 GMT -8
This is weird. When I spread a fresh specimen more than a year ago I was kind of disappointed it looked orange and not red like in the books. There was a discussion about it on the old board. I look at it now and it seems a lot redder than it used to, especially the edge of the hind wings. Attachments:
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 27, 2011 2:34:41 GMT -8
now Attachments:
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Post by nomihoudai on Mar 27, 2011 3:10:54 GMT -8
Maybe the pigments do a color change similar to those of Appias ? Appias turn in sunlight much darker due to an induced reaction of their pigments with sunlight. As your displays hang freely on the wall I guess they get some light and this could be an explanation. Another thing could be of course the moisture, on the spreading board it still had some degree of moisture and now after a year most of it should be gone but personnally I think the explanation due to light is more likely due to the Appias example.
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 27, 2011 4:05:07 GMT -8
Interesting.
On Delias, old red specimens can become orange. Here it seems to be the contrary.
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 27, 2011 7:20:47 GMT -8
nomihoudai, there is almost no light in that room. It's in a basement and the only window is boarded up to block all sunlight .
I only have small table lamp (25w) on during the time I have to go there and only turn more lights on when I want to see my other specimens .None of my other specimens have faded or changed color due to light exposure .
What I'm saying is that an "orange" avelleneda is starting to look like a "typical" red avellaneda we see in books
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Post by nomihoudai on Mar 27, 2011 8:36:31 GMT -8
Then another thing could be time+temperature in your room creating enough energy so that the pigments, which are based upon molecules and not physical properties like in Morpho, change their behavior and color,... or oxidation of something, dehydration of a molecule or the forming of a complex with water etc. etc. ! There is a lot of possibilities, I am studying biophysics and have seen a few properties like that and it would be interesting to explain it completely, but I guess nobody would be fine to donate such a specimen for chemical experiments in order to identify the structure of the pigments  At least we know now that specimens turn more reddish over time which sure is nice. In Frankfurt there is one guy that always has a drawer full of these specimen and tries to sell them. I should ask him if he has experienced the same on his series of specimen... I might even buy one as this species is one of the nicest there is ! Maybe if I get lucky on sales this year and have the necessary $$ |
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 27, 2011 15:34:28 GMT -8
Maybe it's similar to black Papilios turning brownish in the long term
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Post by papilio28570 on Mar 27, 2011 16:12:14 GMT -8
I would assume that the red pigmentation comes from iron content of the larval food plant (lfp). I have read in the past, that the yellow comes from sulfur in the lfp. If it is iron, then I would further guess that oxidation or rusting is taking place which suggests the presents of moisture and would account for the deepening of the color. A basement sounds like a potential moisture rich environment for specimen storage.
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 27, 2011 16:50:56 GMT -8
I have a de-humidifier in the room to keep the level under control
It definitely seems darker and redder than when I spread it. Or maybe I'm just imagining things and the picture wrongly corroborates my impression because it might be in a different lighting
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Post by mannnfred on Mar 28, 2011 5:03:57 GMT -8
As far as I know the yellow/red pigments within Pieridae are ureic acid derivatives = protein-like (containing nitrogenium and NOT iron minerals).
One should expect these pigments to slowly deteriorate. Another explanation could be, that the specimen was a newly hatched one and the pigments have only naturally aged (ripened) to achieve the "proper" color later.
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Post by Chris Grinter on Mar 28, 2011 5:45:39 GMT -8
Is the camera the same?
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 28, 2011 11:14:35 GMT -8
yes, same camera. I took the picture with the same lamps too Here's another pic of fresh off the spreading board in 2009. The colors look a bit more intense but hind wings still look more uniform orange Attachments:
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Post by bizarro on Jun 22, 2011 7:12:17 GMT -8
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