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ID help
Oct 17, 2020 12:07:56 GMT -8
Post by Paul K on Oct 17, 2020 12:07:56 GMT -8
I need help of Coleopterist to ID these two specimens. late May 40km west of Toronto Nicrophorus tomentosus ??  Mid June, 60km west of Toronto  |
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Post by trehopr1 on Oct 17, 2020 13:30:44 GMT -8
Hey Paul, the lower one looks to me like one of the many flower longhorns of the subfamily Lepturinae. Many Lepturinae have the elytra tapering posteriorly and/or the pronotum narrower than the base of the elytra, giving them a rather broad shouldered appearance.
The subfamily is a large group which is richly represented in the northern hemisphere by 6 tribes with around 200 species in some 60 genera (in N. America). I recognized the specimen to subfamily right away but, for any further determination perhaps (Bandrow) is best suited as he specializes on Cerambycidae and is a true coleopterist at heart and in passion !
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ID help
Oct 17, 2020 16:49:10 GMT -8
Post by Paul K on Oct 17, 2020 16:49:10 GMT -8
Hey Paul, the lower one looks to me like one of the many flower longhorns of the subfamily Lepturinae. Many Lepturinae have the elytra tapering posteriorly and/or the pronotum narrower than the base of the elytra, giving them a rather broad shouldered appearance. The subfamily is a large group which is richly represented in the northern hemisphere by 6 tribes with around 200 species in some 60 genera (in N. America). I recognized the specimen to subfamily right away but, for any further determination perhaps (Bandrow) is best suited as he specializes on Cerambycidae and is a true coleopterist at heart and in passion ! What about Typocerus acuticauda ? Thoughts ? |
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mikeh
Full Member
Posts: 207
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ID help
Oct 17, 2020 18:49:05 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by mikeh on Oct 17, 2020 18:49:05 GMT -8
tomentosus has a hairy pronotum so that is not it, maybe orbicollis?
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ID help
Oct 17, 2020 18:52:45 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by exoticimports on Oct 17, 2020 18:52:45 GMT -8
Given the problems we have with bloody tiger swallowtails, god knows what any beetle really is.
I’ve a number of similar carrion beetles, I’ll take a look when I can. Based on the above experience I’m afraid even to look.
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Post by eurytides on Oct 17, 2020 21:24:28 GMT -8
Given the problems we have with bloody tiger swallowtails, god knows what any beetle really is. I’ve a number of similar carrion beetles, I’ll take a look when I can. Based on the above experience I’m afraid even to look. I don’t go anywhere near beetles. Like you said, lep ID is hard enough! |
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ID help
Oct 17, 2020 22:19:21 GMT -8
Post by kevinkk on Oct 17, 2020 22:19:21 GMT -8
Don't fear the beetle. I remember collecting my first carrion and burying beetles on a decomposing cat.
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 6:30:05 GMT -8
Post by Paul K on Oct 18, 2020 6:30:05 GMT -8
tomentosus has a hairy pronotum so that is not it, maybe orbicollis? It looks like accept the tip of antennas are not orange on my specimen like on those photos of N. orbicollis. Maybe Nicrophorus vespilloides ? |
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 6:58:37 GMT -8
Post by bandrow on Oct 18, 2020 6:58:37 GMT -8
Greetings, I'll stick my neck out on these!  The cerambycid is Trigonarthris sp. It's most likely T. subpubescens - up until recently known by the name T. minnesotana. A second species, T. proxima, is possible in the area, and a ventral view of the last abdominal segment would clinch an ID. The silphid looks a lot like N. orbicollis due to the apparently hairy elytra, but as Paul K says, the antennal segments appear black. Does the basal orange band of the elytra connect to a longitudinal orange band along the elytral epipleuron? To check this, look at the specimen from the side and see if the color pattern of the lower edge of the elytra from front to back is 'orange-black'... or 'black-orange-black-... or only black along the entire edge... Cheers! Bandrow |
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 8:21:19 GMT -8
Post by bandrow on Oct 18, 2020 8:21:19 GMT -8
Greetings,
As a follow-up - here are the details to separate the two species of Trigonarthris in your area.
For males, the ventral surface of the last abdominal segment of T. proxima is deeply notched; for T. subpubescens, it is truncate, with no emargination.
For females, the dorsal surface of the last abdominal segment of T. proxima is strongly carinate; for T. subpubescens, it is smooth, with no hint of a carina.
Males are usually more slender, with a more narrowed abdomen, while the females are usually larger, with a robust abdomen. The antennae in the male are a bit longer than in the female, but not as noticeably so as in other cerambycids. Also - males tend to have the middle tarsi slightly inflated, making them appear larger then the hind tarsi - all tarsi are similar in the females.
Hope this helps!
Bandrow
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 8:47:00 GMT -8
Post by Paul K on Oct 18, 2020 8:47:00 GMT -8
Thank you Bandrow! I was counting on your expertise. I will post photos so hopefully you could confirm on both specimens
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 10:51:14 GMT -8
Post by trehopr1 on Oct 18, 2020 10:51:14 GMT -8
Like I said in my above post; Bandrow is a true coleopterist at heart and in passion. And, he sure knows those Cerambycidae ! |
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 12:23:40 GMT -8
Post by bandrow on Oct 18, 2020 12:23:40 GMT -8
Hi All,
Paul K - I'll watch for the images - another candidate for the silphid is N. defodiens, but a good view of the bottom edge of the elytra should clinch it.
Trehopr1 - thank you for the kind words - they're appreciated!!
Cheers!
Bandrow
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 17:24:29 GMT -8
Post by Paul K on Oct 18, 2020 17:24:29 GMT -8
I hope you could determinate species from these two photos.   |
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ID help
Oct 18, 2020 19:15:36 GMT -8
Post by bandrow on Oct 18, 2020 19:15:36 GMT -8
Hi Paul,
Perfect - both images show the necessary characters to clinch the ID's...
The cerambycid is Trigonarthris proxima (Say), and is a male. That notch on the last abdominal ventrite is clearly visible.
The silphid is Nicrophorus orbicollis Say. In this image, the numerous setae on the elytra and the all-black elytral epipleuron are clearly visible. The outer segments of the antennae are lighter than the basal, even if they are not distinctly orange. Many specimens have the orange of the antennae darkened by being greasy - if you catch enough silphids you'll see some pretty greasy - and smelly! - specimens.
Thanks for the extra images - they caught all the necessary views to put a name on these...
Cheers!
Bandrow
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