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Post by lordpandarus on Jan 19, 2021 18:08:35 GMT -8
Over the years I've had too many of them that were killed too early, resulting in improperly dried, soggy wings making them near impossible to set properly.
Or the opposite the specimens were killed with some chemical that made them stiff and wouldn't relax properly.
And also they are more prone to having abdomen fluid leaking and staining the wings
I much prefer acquiring an "A1 net caught" specimen even if it means it has a few flight scratches. At least the specimens relax normally and much less risk of bending the shoulders when setting.
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Post by mothman27 on Jan 20, 2021 6:58:19 GMT -8
I have had this experience as well. One that stands out was an ex-pupae female Hemileuca electra clio which was sent to me from someone who had pupae. The wings became wrinkled in the envelope. Luckily I noticed and pinned immediately. I was able to flatten the wings most of the way back but it is clearly not perfect.  |
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Post by lordpandarus on Jan 20, 2021 7:06:07 GMT -8
Some species I had recurrent problems with
Hypolimnas antevorta and usambara reared from Tanzania
Papilio androgeus females reared in Peru
Anaea and Agrias ex-pupae from Costa Rica
Papilio palinurus Ken Thorne's stock
Papilio memnon females
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jan 20, 2021 8:50:46 GMT -8
I reared Urbanus proteus and as they emerged and began to take flight, I would put the in the freezer to dispatch then. I had 30 + adults emerge. The tails on everyone curled upward.
Several years later, I placed them in my relaxer to rehydrate them, the tails flatened out. I covered the wings with card stock. When I removed them from the spreading board six months later. The wings, tails and all were flat. Several years later while placing more specimens in the drawer, I noticed that all of the original specimens, the tails had once again curled.(That made me say lot's of bad word's.)
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Post by yorky on Jan 20, 2021 10:13:15 GMT -8
I have only had this problem with ex pupae papilionidae. Those specimens that I have bred myself are despatched correctly but bought items are a bit of a lottery. Worst case was a hybrid machaon/maackii, in the end I managed to make a nice specimen out of it but boy was it hard work. Knowing when to kill the specimen can be a bit of an art and some breeders do this as soon as the wings are fully expanded to save on damage but it results in a useless specimen that can't be spread.
A few years back I bred large amounts of nymphalis polychloris and Vanessa gonerilla, not one specimen crippled and not a scale out of place, all spread easily because I waited the correct amount of time to despatch.
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Post by Chris Grinter on Jan 20, 2021 10:35:30 GMT -8
Freshly emerged Leps should be allowed to live for 24-48 hours to properly let the chitin harden (which is especially important if you're rearing anything you may need to dissect at some point). Place the moth in dark space or refrigerator to keep them from flying.
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Post by Paul K on Jan 20, 2021 10:48:59 GMT -8
I don’t breed a lot but I did some Graphium, some silkmoths and other moths and I usually dispatch them anytime between 2-4 hrs and never had problems so far.
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Post by trehopr1 on Jan 20, 2021 11:22:34 GMT -8
I think to some extent some papered Ornithoptera also present problems in setting
due to being killed when their wings are "scarcely" dry after emergence.
By all rights, these largest of butterflies (as a group) should be the easiest
things to set and work with. Yet, I have seen a fair few in private hands where
it is obvious whomever set them had difficulty.
I have seen a number with "bent shoulders" or (crooked wings), others with
completely dehydrated (flattened) abdomens which are un-natural as well as
unsightly -- remember (I'm an aesthetic collector), and still others with
some wing staining though I couldn't tell you if its from some chemical injection
or from the rehydration process.
Nonetheless, most of the species still remain a little pricey when purchased
and then you still have to gamble that your specimens you just paid 60 or 80 bucks
for (or more) don't have problem issues....
I strayed away from buying papered stock in these some 25 years ago and have only
"dabbled" in purchasing them from old collections (being sold), a few trades, and a
couple Ebay purchases which arrived as (set).
My holdings of these remains albeit small but, I am always thrilled at the sight
of them in the drawers as I know how "tough' it has been to get truly nice examples !
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Post by wolf on Jan 20, 2021 13:00:06 GMT -8
I usually wait atleast 24h from hatching to kill them. I've bred mostly lycaenidae, and i find that the shiny ones very often rub easily when freshly emerged, even after 24h. Think i will have to experiment alittle and see if it helps to leave them alive for like 2-3 days instead. The rubs are annoying, but the bending shoulders are a freakin nightmare!
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Post by gaspipe on Jan 20, 2021 14:08:18 GMT -8
I usually wait atleast 24h from hatching to kill them. I've bred mostly lycaenidae, and i find that the shiny ones very often rub easily when freshly emerged, even after 24h. Think i will have to experiment alittle and see if it helps to leave them alive for like 2-3 days instead. The rubs are annoying, but the bending shoulders are a freakin nightmare! It’s good to hear you experienced guys , even with fresh specimens, have issues . The bending shoulders issue is far and away my biggest problem. I guess misery loves company. |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jan 20, 2021 15:45:58 GMT -8
I learned many Moon's ago to place newly emerged Lepidoptera in the dark. From the dark into a freezer and perfect specimen, "most of the time."
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Post by kevinkk on Jan 20, 2021 19:33:41 GMT -8
Letting the wings harden is important, if it's a moth, I'll let it live as long as practical, I've made the mistake of dispatching too early,
Butterflies from pupa are going to need several hours or more to harden the wings. Typically, a moth will sit the first night anyway and can
be dispatched the next day, I think even many butterflies will be fairly quiet the first day if not disturbed.
My biggest failures have been having that perfect long tailed Actias maenas or isis, trying to grab it properly, have it get loose and break
a tail..Automeris are another hard one to grab properly, I suppose I could have coaxed them into the death chamber instead of trying to
pick them up though.
I've had problems with Citheronia before, but I think they were dispatched too soon.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jan 21, 2021 5:38:19 GMT -8
Rearing Lepidoptera is always enjoyable and can also be a lot of work. There is no better way to have perfect stunning specimens than "ex-pupae".
I use several different methods for rearing. Should a tree be the larval host, I sleeved the larvae. Should the larval host be a small plant, I will use potted plants. However, it takes some planning and preparations. I had a large plot in the back of my lot in Kentucky that my late Wife Ms Betty called my "Weed Bed"!
When I first developed my weed bed, I obtained a pickup truck load of horse manure. Living in central Kentucky, the Horse Capital of the World, a good load of manure was easily obtained. Of course if you would prefered a load of BS, the State Capitol, Frankfort, was just down the road.(I little attempt at some humor.)
Once the larvae matured and pupated, I just left them in the cages. However, the cage must be large enough for the emerging adults to spread their wings.
I also kept the newly emerged adults in the dark once they emerged and spread their wings to dry. Once dry. I placed them in a freezer to dispatch them. I would leave them 24+ hours in the freezer. However, I emphasize, leave them in the freezer a good 24 hours. A large sphinx moth pinned on a spreading board that manages to survive the freezer will be trash in a few minutes of wiggling for freedom on a spreading board.
I also use cyanide killing jars which will dispatch specimens very quickly.
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