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Post by barbarahh on Mar 20, 2021 9:50:54 GMT -8
This is a somewhat unusual request, because I only have an approx. 2000 year old depiction of the insect to be identified on a kind of seal from the Middle East. So far, my research in the field of locusts and moths wasn’t satisfying. But maybe someone has already seen something that has comparable characteristics.
Thanks in advance for help
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Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 20, 2021 10:15:08 GMT -8
Just a speculation really, but this may possibly be a representation of a honey bee, and the concentric lines on the seal's reverse, possibly layers of honey comb, or a beehive.
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Post by barbarahh on Mar 20, 2021 10:25:33 GMT -8
I had already thought of a representation of bees (bee goddess). But these two points (like eyes) on the back and the apparently missing head irritated me.
Cicadas might also be an option? Backside: sound waves??
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Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 20, 2021 10:49:03 GMT -8
I had already thought of a representation of bees (bee goddess). But these two points (like eyes) on the back and the apparently missing head irritated me. Cicadas might also be an option? Backside: sound waves?? Possibly a cicada, yes. Surely though, the people of that time period would not have depicted sound as "waves"? Sound didn't become known as a wave until the Scientific Revolution (or at least, the High Renaissance). |
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Post by africaone on Mar 20, 2021 14:37:32 GMT -8
look more like a bird ...
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Post by livingplanet3 on Mar 20, 2021 14:50:08 GMT -8
look more like a bird ... Yes, but in ancient art, the wings of some insects (including scarabs) were typically depicted as feathered -  |
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Post by tv on Mar 20, 2021 21:38:59 GMT -8
The very long and deliberate back legs makes me think more like a locust, but it definitely has a cicada body shape. If it were a bee, they might have gone with horizontal stripes instead of the angled body lines. Also, would they have put a stinger on a bee, seems like it would be a defining characteristic.
Is there any context about how this was used/arranged. Was it always a single piece or could there have been a second piece that would be situated above this one?
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Post by barbarahh on Mar 20, 2021 22:50:07 GMT -8
Thank you for all your thoughts – and please excuse my bad English below! This piece is a solitaire - without references. And since experts for such artifacts could not classify it either, I decided to ask insect experts. A context, about how this was used is not known. One idea was that the wearer's head should "complet“ the "missing" head of the insect. That might make sense. Also back legs of a locust make sense. Plagues of locusts are documented in contemporary letters (cuneiform) from local governors to the central government and caused official directives. Perhaps the piece was an "ID card" for those authorized to issue instructions. What particularly irritates me are these three points. I was wondering if they could be characteristic of a certain species of insect. If so, I would research the connections in everyday life between corresponding cultures of that time. To explain the big point at the end of the body, I found something disgusting: The favoured method of obtaining bee sperm is to pull off the insect's head. Decapitation sends an electrical impulse to the nervous system, causing sexual arousal. The lower half of the headless bee is then squeezed to make it ejaculate, the resulting liquid is collected for insertion into the female. I don't know whether this practice was known by the beekeepers in ancient Near East.
By the way: The sound waves were just a crazy idea. There are other interpretations for these arches.  |
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Post by exoticimports on Mar 21, 2021 7:03:08 GMT -8
I rule out locust due to the thickness of the abdomen
The underside of the cicada has those features , but the glyphs legs are too long.
Many wasps have marking like the circles, and color on the end of the abdomen. And the legs are the correct dimensions. So I vote wasp. If one searches wasps the occur or did occur in Egypt I’ll bet a match can be found.
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Post by barbarahh on Mar 21, 2021 11:02:40 GMT -8
Wasps! This opens up a completely new area for research! For example, I'll try to get to this text: "Insects as Warfare Agents in the Ancient Near East". I have no idea what's behind this, but wasps are mentioned!
Can you give me a picture of such "markings" you mentioned?
Thanks a lot!
By the way: The find region of this object is not Egypt, but ancient near east.
Kind regards Barbara
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Post by africaone on Mar 22, 2021 1:42:53 GMT -8
Barbara,
your post and infos are very interesting, espacially for curious as us
Who are you ?
Thierry
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Post by barbarahh on Mar 22, 2021 6:31:57 GMT -8
Hi Thierry,
I am a graphic designer from Hamburg with an interest in archeology. And a collector of small and special artefacts from past cultures, which I (as a hobby) bring back to life in wearable jewelry. I always research the pieces in my collection as precisely as possible. Because future owners should know what they are holding in their hands and appreciate these artifacts! But with the piece presented here, I just can't get any further. It's a mystery ...
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