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Post by timoinsects on Apr 30, 2011 9:48:58 GMT -8
for the past months,i received a lot emails proposaling sales of cameroonise beetles from "different" cameroonise "dealers",sure they could privide photos. BUT when placed an order and required to see my "ordered" specimens ONLY,no more no less species. and quantity. or...... require a photo of your ordered specimens by putting aside a lable/paper with your name or date wroten on. this 100% prove some suspected sellers at least have insects they claimed.Good Way! BUT what the funny is.......see picture attached............... ;D check careful with the "electronic" lable. ;D his name and mail katty milner < kattymilner@gmail.com > Attachments:
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Post by timoinsects on Apr 30, 2011 9:56:08 GMT -8
again,
"her" price list
G. goliathus 98mm/15euros/pairs
G. quadrimaculatus 95mm/20euros/pairs
G. undulus 95mm/20euros/pairs
G. couspersus 95mm/15euros/pair
i pretened ordered 30pcs G. quadrimaculatus 95m+, "she" then quickly replied me i should pay 30pcs x 20e.that means 30pcs G. quadrimaculatus 95m+ no problem, but G. quadrimaculatus is VERY RARE among Goliathus, more to say 95mm+ such rare huge size! plus 30pcs big quantity! possible?
also,i "ordered" 30pcs,but this picture shows 32pcs,i asked to take another one ONLY 30pcs no more no less,"she" pretended unpatient and said won't take more photos. ;D
i checked the previous mails "she" sent me also her lists of Morpho,
"her" orginal mails,
"Hello, i have a collection of insects . i have just what
you are lookin for.
Morpho didius
Morpho godarti
Morpho menelaus
Morpho rhetenor
Morpho cisseis (luna & sun)
and many more."
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Post by timoinsects on Apr 30, 2011 9:59:35 GMT -8
"she" sent another mail to another my email address without knowing that's same person. but another mail "her" offers is different, included Dynastes. then i asked "her" if could privide Dynastes too,"she" said don't have. i actually wish have a reliable cameroonise partener to offer me Goliathus in wholesale good price ,but disappointed again and again  it would be easy to run reliable/honest business if pay some time/energy and some a little basic costs if having good original insects resources,but...........  hope more people will see this,and less risk!  |
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Post by starlightcriminal on May 3, 2011 5:30:23 GMT -8
I like how the label is just laid on top of the photo of the beetles (you can see the shadow resting on the flat plane of the picture). The last "guy" from Cameroon that tried to sell me things acted very upset and offended that I would ask so many questions. He literally said: "Just a point of reminder that i accepted your trial Order as a sign of securing and establishing a long term Business relation. Moreover,I would like to let you know that for my 12 year experience in this field,no one has ever asked for references. So its some sort of a surprise that the one i opted giving a helping hand to is the one embarrassing me." He says he gives me a helping hand because I don't want to buy $500.00 USD worth of items from someone unknown so he said I can buy $100.00 instead. So the "helping hand" really amounts to him letting me pay him (by WesternUnion of course) for nothing but a string of rude emails (and yes, they get a little abusive further down the string after I said, "thanks anyway, but no thanks"). I told him I would offer a "helping hand" too and let him send me the specimens in advance with no payment . He didn't seem to see the parallel. |
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Post by proflek2011 on May 14, 2011 8:00:18 GMT -8
Hi Timo.
I think your approach is good but do not overdo it. When you subject a well known dealer to a series of test questions and not seemingly satisfied with the answers, the tendency is that at one point he/she feels like he/she is being humuliated. You may evently be lossing a potential supplier.
I think if you want Goliathus subspecies from Cameroon you will get them if you contact the right supplier. The problem maybe you are not willing to pay at his prices.
Good Luck
Proflek
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Post by starlightcriminal on May 16, 2011 8:38:46 GMT -8
I would add that I think a "well known dealer" would not be subjected to so many questions because he/she would not have so many causes for suspicion. A dealer garners a reputation by have some very simple ways of verifying the quality/existence of stock. There are lots of ways to do this- a reference, a custom photograph, etc. etc. It's only a hassle to provide one these if you have to go through the effort of photoshopping some terrible faux or setting up fake references for a scam. I don't think asking for a reference is humiliating- a good dealer would be proud of his business not inconvenienced by making a sale.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 16, 2011 11:43:58 GMT -8
Sigh - I want my customers to ask questions. I feel like I must not have interesting stuff if no questions are asked.
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Post by proflek2011 on May 19, 2011 2:47:18 GMT -8
starlightcriminal, You are right. A well known dealer will not be asked a lot of questions. But look at it this way. a well knwn dealer has an order from a buyer who is a beginner. The beginner will definitely as a lot of questions. But my point was not on asking questions. My point was asking the dealer to take and modify photos over and over.
A good dealer will normally be proud to give references. The problem with references is that
1. some buyers would not want their information to be made public
2. Some buyers would want to keep good suppliers to themselves and will not want to reply when asked to confirm a dealer by another dealer.
I think it is all a question of good conscience. You cannot buy or sell all the insects in the world alone if you were left to buy or sell alone.
Good luck to all
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Post by starlightcriminal on May 23, 2011 9:31:28 GMT -8
Yes proflek, but all of this can be solved another way. You point out all of the privacy issues. Why not just ask for a picture of the specimen with your name by it or with some other specific object? It's very easy to tell if a photo is altered. Then no privacy violation and it takes only a digital camera or a decent cell phone. Again, there are lots of ways you can prove your reliability without needing to expose yourself or others information. It's really the seller's loss if they can't do this and it is the seller's burden to prove. A buyer can take a risk if they feel it is worth it (i.e. inexpensive order or too good to pass up the chance type of thing) but seller's have no right to complain about doing business. After all, that's what they are doing. If they don't want to sell because you asked for a picture then they really deserve to get an *honest* (don't say the stole from you if they just wouldn't provide verification) review that states the facts- "so-and-so told me I asked to many questions and would not provide references, photographs, other documentation such that I cannot distinguish the offer from a potential scam and therefor will not buy from them or recommend them." That's the point of the trading reports. I certainly wouldn't order from someone with a report like that even though it is absolutely honest and says nothing about the legitimacy of the trader one way or the other. Just that they were not forthcoming. So as a seller, have something ready whether it is a reference or a reference photograph or don't be offended when someone reports the truth. If you don't want to seem like a suspicious seller then don't act like one. Using known bad-business practices will only make people think you are a bad businessman. The upkeep of your business and your professional reputation is not the buyer's responsibility. It's how business works- make accommodations for customers or lose them and potentially your business with them.
Nobody say over and over photographs, just one with something specific. Very easy. If you are too troubled by taking a photograph, why would I believe you aren't too troubled to pack up the specimen decently or label correctly in the first place? Why would I believe you weren't too troubled to actually have a real specimen in the first place? A simple photograph takes less than one minute to take and email. It's not an excuse, it's cause for suspicion. Of the examples you have above both lead to probably scammers (one that asks for money WesternUnion to Cameroon after clearly stating that they were in the US in the initial emails and that they accepted paypal; the other provides a picture of specimens with the label laid on top of the photo and then sent as "proof") so I'm guessing more often than not this type of treatment from a seller usually indicates dishonesty or at the very minimum a poorly constructed business with an impatient and disinterested seller. Either way, not the type I care to do business with.
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