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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 1, 2011 16:49:58 GMT -8
Can anyone ID this Actias sp from Cao Bang Vietnam? Any idea? Thanks for any help! Raymond Attachments:
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Post by saturniidave on Sept 1, 2011 17:32:58 GMT -8
Looks like an ordinary Actias selene to me.
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 1, 2011 17:41:46 GMT -8
I think the tail is a little bit too long and the wrong shape to be Actias selene. Here is an ordinary Actias selene from Tam Dao. Raymond Attachments:
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Post by ladobe on Sept 1, 2011 21:53:00 GMT -8
Tail length and shape can vary... so it could look like A. selene to me too. Maybe A. parasinensis? Or how about maybe chrisbrechlinae or heterogyna from just across the border in China?
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 1, 2011 22:12:31 GMT -8
I have lots of A. selene from different Countries and Prov in my collection but none of them look any where near this one from Cao Bang. That is a male. I'm sure it's not A. parasinensis, chrisbrechlinae, heterogyna.
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Post by oehlkew on Sept 3, 2011 9:57:22 GMT -8
It is not a male selene. Hope you can show us the spread specimen so we can see upper wing surfaces and antennae. Perhaps some sort of gynandromorph as wing shape and lower reaches of tails are more suggestive of a female. It might also be a natural hybrid of rhodpneuma and selene.
The overall wing shape and pattern is very suggestive of a female rhodopneuma, especially the pointed tips of the forewing apex and the very bulbous ends to hindwing tails.
Bill Oehlke
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 3, 2011 11:01:51 GMT -8
Raymond,
I am certainly not very well informed about Saturniidae, but it looks like a female to me, at least the antennae are much thinner than the ones in the male from Tam Dao and the wingshape looks like a female. To me it looks superficially very similar to female selene from around here.
I do know that the shape of the eyespots on the wings can help to identify the different Actias species, so a photo of the upperside would definitely help.
It is nothing like parasinensis, which is small and yellow, by the way.
Adam.
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Post by ladobe on Sept 3, 2011 13:36:26 GMT -8
A. parasinensis females are larger than the males, and are green.
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Post by africaone on Sept 3, 2011 14:04:08 GMT -8
anyway, selene is a big complex that is under study and that contains some species.  I don't know if the revision is yet published ... if not, it will not take so much time !  |
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 3, 2011 22:50:15 GMT -8
The only reason I know that's a male for sure is because they were mateing on my light sheet. It's not a cross between rhodpneuma and selene because rhodpneuma dosen't exist in Cao Bang, only from central Vietnam. Here are females Actias selene from Guangdong China on top and this Actias sp female from Cao Bang Vietnam bottom. Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 4, 2011 8:09:51 GMT -8
A. parasinensis females are larger than the males, and are green. Yes, the females are green, but it was claimed to be a male, and males of parasinensis are yellow. Adam. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 4, 2011 8:17:56 GMT -8
I have e-mailed someone I know here in Thailand who did his masters degree on Saturniidae. Maybe he knows what it is. If I get a reply I'll post the information here.
Adam.
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Post by oehlkew on Sept 4, 2011 9:34:16 GMT -8
Raymond, The Actias rhodopneuma moth (wingspan 11-13 cm) flies in Laos, reported for the first time for central Laos, from two male specimens from Luang Prabang, 2000 m, VI. 1997 and in the Naga Hills of Assam in northeast India. It has also been observed in China: Yunnan, Burma, Vietnam and Thailand: Chiang Mai and Doi Phu Kha National Park, Nan Province, 1300m. I suspect that range would also have the A. rhodopneuma in northern Vietnam, possibly as an eastern most limit, and just not reported there yet. It would seem strange that you would rule out rhodopneuma when you do not know what else it could be?  unless it was paired with a definite female selene, in which case it would seem to be an aberration or very unusual gynandromorph. I am surprised that you did not tell us which species the "male" was paired with. I have often seen paired butterflies in flight, but I have never seen a pair of Saturniidae at a light. This is a first for me. |
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Post by lucanidae25 on Sept 4, 2011 15:05:26 GMT -8
Yes, I have got 2 males Actias rhodopneuma from Kom Tum Central Vietnam and that is near your report in Laos but I have never heard A. rhodopneuma taken in Northern Vietnam ie: Tam Dao, Cao Bang, Sapa or Ha Giang. There are Actias dubernardi taken in Ha Giang.
The 1st pic on top is the male and the bottom one in the females pic is the female. This is not the 1st time I've seen pair mateing because I've found out if you leave them long enough at the light, they would eventually mate. Most people would kill them before they would have a chance to mate. I've seen it in China too.
I have a feeling might be new. It wasn't that long ago Actias chapae was decribed in Central Vietnam and there are new sp of Lucanidae being decribed in Vietnam very year.
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Post by oehlkew on Sept 4, 2011 15:51:56 GMT -8
Raymond,
Here in North America almost all female Saturniidae do not fly until after they have paired. Almost always, female Saturniidae taken at lights have gravid ova because they have paired before they have flown to lights.
I do not dispute your report, but it indicates something completely new to me in approximately fifty-five years of study, and correspondence with hundreds of Saturniidae collectors.
I would very much like to document your report of Saturniidae pairing at lights with species names and dates and locations from you and any one else who has witnessed this behaviour.
Photographs would be great. Here, males are so much distracted by lights, that calling females are sometimes placed in inacessable cages near lights so that a great sampling of males can be done. The males are lured by the pheromones in the air, but they get so distracted by lights that they respond to lights (175 watt mv) rather than to females once they get close. I have never tried placing a calling female on a sheet however. That might be an interesting experiment for next year.
If your report is accurate and not somehow confused, then you likely have an aberrant male selene whose wing shapes show a much more consistent female shape.
I am not aware of gynandromorphs with female wings and male bodies. The other possibility is that it is something new, not yet described.
I do not know of any other species from Vietnam or southeastern China that have males with such bulbous tails.
Bill Oehlke.
I look forward to seeing images of the spread specimens.
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unless it was paired with a definite female selene, in which case it would seem to be an aberration or very unusual gynandromorph.