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Post by dertodesking on Nov 4, 2011 12:16:16 GMT -8
Starlight,
Respectfully - you've got to be joking?
The Tibetans have been assimilated? The Chinese, or more specifically the Chinese Communist Party, can't be that bad because they've brought a transport network, medicine, telecommunications etc?
You say it's better to make a meagre living than no living at all. I'd say it was better to die a free man than live under the yoke of the Communist Party.
John (Panzerman) is right - Mao was an evil despot whose ideology led to the deaths of MILLIONS of Chinese. He makes ANY other tyrant in history pale in significance compared with his evil. To write that all off as misguided ideology gives tacit approval to over sixty million deaths.
My views on the Chinese Communist Party are not based on Richard Gere or any other celebrity...but on my readings on the subject and conversations with a couple of ex-pat Chinese friends who, like many others, fled the wonderland that is Communist China.
Simon
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Post by panzerman on Nov 6, 2011 19:42:09 GMT -8
When you look back on all the Countries that were taken over by Communist dictatorships, people lost their freedom, dignity, material wealth, and if they dared to voice their opinion, imprisoned or executed. Bela Kun in Hungary strung enemies up from telephone poles, Leon Bronstein(Trostky) had millions of Whites, men, women, children shot, multilated during the Civil War 1917-22, Lev Kaganovich straved 16 million Kulaks 1929-33, NKVD, OPGU, CHEKA murdered tens of millions, plus sent many more too GULAGS, Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge killers wiped out one quarter of Cambodias populace. Even in the Spanish Civil War, 1936-39, the Communist side(Republicans)commited far more atrocities then Francos Fascists forces. Che Guevera who died like a coward in Bolivia, got his jollies while watching firing squads mowing down prisoners taken during the toppling of Battistas govt. So, now you can see, the Chinese Communists had a lot of bad influences....
John
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Post by dertodesking on Nov 7, 2011 13:44:50 GMT -8
When you look back on all the Countries that were taken over by Communist dictatorships, people lost their freedom, dignity, material wealth, and if they dared to voice their opinion, imprisoned or executed. Bela Kun in Hungary strung enemies up from telephone poles, Leon Bronstein(Trostky) had millions of Whites, men, women, children shot, multilated during the Civil War 1917-22, Lev Kaganovich straved 16 million Kulaks 1929-33, NKVD, OPGU, CHEKA murdered tens of millions, plus sent many more too GULAGS, Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge killers wiped out one quarter of Cambodias populace. Even in the Spanish Civil War, 1936-39, the Communist side(Republicans)commited far more atrocities then Francos Fascists forces. Che Guevera who died like a coward in Bolivia, got his jollies while watching firing squads mowing down prisoners taken during the toppling of Battistas govt. So, now you can see, the Chinese Communists had a lot of bad influences.... John I agree John - Communist states the world over have ATROCIOUS records...far, far worse than any other kind of regime. Simon |
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 8, 2011 2:46:15 GMT -8
Agree but I am not sure those kind of "who's the worst regime" is useful.
All totalitarian regime should be condemned without saying "yes but other site was even worst".
What if the nazi regime lasted 80 years over Western Europe (like communism did on Eastern Europe)... how many dead people?
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Post by panzerman on Nov 29, 2011 17:07:22 GMT -8
The reasons Communist govts failed, is that the capitalist system works best. Far right regimes allow private ownership of businesses, property, assets. Franco's Spain 1939-1976 was a good example of a benevolent fascist govt. Take modern day North Korea, people are suffering from famine due to insane economic policy, anyone who resists the tyranny of Kim, is shot or worked too death in a gulag. Ditto for Maos, "Cultural Revolution", Stalin's genocide in the Ukraine where 16 million kulaks were shot, straved too death, entire villages, towns that resisted were bombed by the Red Air Force. According too released NKVD files in 1990, Stalin had a grand plan to take over Europe in 1945, America in 1955...imagine how many of us would not be here had that come too pass. Getting back to the last post. Had the war of gone on, or a stalement brought peace, there were many in the Third Reich hierachy that would have gotten rid of Hitler(since he was insane) and someone like an Albert Speer, Karl Doenitz would have been made the head of state, gradually too a model like Franco's Spain, eventually maybe a democracy. In 1630 Europe, the Catholic Church was feared as much as Stalins NKVD in the 1937 Soviet Union, yet today the Catholic Church is cherished by most Christians. This same Church burned 9 million women, men for witchcraft, and other crimes vs the Church.
John
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 30, 2011 6:56:04 GMT -8
I highly doubt the Third Reich would have become a democraty with time... and Franco wasn't better than Hitler... he just had less panzers... Anyway we are too many humans on Earth, so let's hope a nuclear WW3... Please just avoid Western Europe and Papua.  |
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Post by arrowhead on Nov 30, 2011 9:13:31 GMT -8
You may just get your wish. But don't look for news of it on U.S. mainstream media. Until it's too late, of course--Arrowhead
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Post by lamprima2 on Dec 16, 2011 13:17:15 GMT -8
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Post by panzerman on Dec 17, 2011 8:26:14 GMT -8
I highly doubt the Third Reich would have become a democraty with time... and Franco wasn't better than Hitler... he just had less panzers... Anyway we are too many humans on Earth, so let's hope a nuclear WW3... Please just avoid Western Europe and Papua. And Canada..... Franco, one must remember saved Spain from becoming a vassal puppet state of Josef Stalin. Imagine the nightmare scenario of a Communist Republican govt. in power after winning the Civil War. Just like Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania in 1940, millions would have been sent too Siberian gulags, millions extreminated. In China, the Communist govt., were responsible for 100+ million deaths, man made famine, executions, people worked too death in gulags, yet this Country is slowly heading towards a more democratic type of dictatorship. Ditto for France, which was under a tyrannical revolutionary govt. from 1789-95 under Robespierre, Napoleon Bonaparte slowly moved the Country back too a more democratic govt. from 1795-1815. So, is does happen. John |
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Post by lamprima2 on Dec 17, 2011 17:11:10 GMT -8
I've never heard that Napoleon Bonaparte was a democrat.
Must be a freedom fighter as well? Perhaps, some collateral damage
was associated with his campaigns?
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Post by panzerman on Dec 18, 2011 8:36:05 GMT -8
Napoleon was not a democrat for 2011 standards, but for the time 1795-1815, his govt. was democratic compared too the 1789-95 Robespierre "Reign of Terror" or the previous Louis XVI period, or what came after the defeat at Waterloo, when Louis XVIII was installed as King again. One must remember that in 1792, Prussia, Austria, England all declared war on France, Napoleon as a young officer defeated the British navy at Toulon, after which he gained more prestige, after a spectacular victory over the Austrians at Marengo. He made France a superpower for the time, something which France last had under the reign of Louis XIV. France under his rule was much more democratic then most other European nations.
John
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Post by lamprima2 on Dec 18, 2011 22:32:44 GMT -8
Hi John,
I am too lazy to search for the numbers, I guess, you have an accurate estimate already: who killed more people- Napoleon or Robespierre?
Thanks,
Sergey
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Post by bobw on Dec 18, 2011 23:12:04 GMT -8
And there goes another one - Kim Jong-il now.
Good riddance!
Bob
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Post by wolf on Dec 19, 2011 0:58:23 GMT -8
yes, now lets sit down and watch what his brainwashed crazy son pulls out of his sleaves ;P
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 19, 2011 1:02:04 GMT -8
lamprima/panzerman < Napoleon did kill far more people (millions of death) than Robespierre. Robespierre was a fanatic revolutionnary... but so was Napoleon.
BTW after the "Terreur period" (Robespierre's governance) Napoleon almost got assassinated because he was a Robespierrist.
Napoleon was Corsican and in those times, it wasn't that well perceived in France. He conquered his first important role in France (Governor of Paris) by being the best scholar in French military academy.
Then in those times, Paris was nearly impossible to rule, and he was the first Governor who had the great idea of using canons against protesters...
Then he won wars in Italy, lost war in Egypt... then he made a putsh and ruled over the French Republic... then he autoproclamated himself as Emperor of the Republic... And all over its reign he cannot stop making wars that made millions of death all over Europe.
People like him because he had great ambition for France, because he modernized France and Europe, because he was a military genious but no... he wasn't at all a democrat !
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