Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2012 1:21:35 GMT -8
Unfortunatly Adam I dont have an answer to that question, I bought the specimen from an insect fair in England about 5 years ago.
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felixb
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Post by felixb on Mar 23, 2012 11:59:53 GMT -8
Hi!
thanks to al who replied to this topic!
Dunc,you posted amazing pictures.
Adam,you've made me happy!I want to ask some things .
1. What can you say about fertility?were all your hybrids fertile?
2. Did you work out a further line of hybrids?or a new generation of your triple hybrid?if not,what was the reason for this?
best regards and thanks for answering my questions
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 23, 2012 12:41:28 GMT -8
Hi! thanks to al who replied to this topic! Dunc,you posted amazing pictures. Adam,you've made me happy!I want to ask some things . 1. What can you say about fertility?were all your hybrids fertile? 2. Did you work out a further line of hybrids?or a new generation of your triple hybrid?if not,what was the reason for this? best regards and thanks for answering my questions The main purpose of my 'hybridizing' was to test the DNA results which show hippocrates, machaon and brevicauda are all the same species. Last year I continued breeding with the 'hybrids' and found it was easy to breed the male black form with females of hippocrates (I did it for 3 generations up to (((b x m) x h) x h) x h and got many offspring from these crosses. However I found it much harder to make F2 [((b x m) x h) x h] x [((b x m) x h) x h] and [(((b x m) x h) x h) x h] x [(((b x m) x h) x h) x h] 'hybrids'. The dark females mated with dark males did lay fertile eggs, but generally in low numbers, and few survived. I think this was partly due to reduced fertility but actually mainly due to the unfavourable weather here at that time of year (rainy season, not much sun and high humidity). I am currently remaking the cross [(((b x m) x h) x h) x h] x [(((b x m) x h) x h) x h] with pupae that I put in diapause last December and brought out of the fridge recently. The 2nd and 3rd generation 'hybrids' are amazing, some very large compared with European machaon, never mind brevicauda. I also made 'hybrids' (both ways) between European machaon and hippocrates, and found that the cross with machaon as male produced offspring that were much easier to breed to F2 than the reciprocal using male hippocrates. One interesting result of crossing brevicauda and machaon was that the male offspring nearly all emerged quite soon, whereas all the female offspring went into diapause, and a few emerged late in the year but most of them are emerging now. Today I crossed a female (b x m) with hippocrates male and another with melitensis male and I also crossed a female brevicauda with hippocrates male. It will be interesting to see if these females lay many fertile eggs or not, as I have also found that brevicauda females are much more difficult to induce to lay eggs that either hippocrates or machaon, so it is possibly not a fertility problem causing the 'hybrid' females to lay few eggs, but may actually be environmental. My current opinion based on the work I have been doing is that brevicauda, hippocrates and machaon are the same species at the moment, but are probably diverging to such an extent that in a significant period of time they will have become separate species. Interestingly one of the best foodplants for hippocrates, Cryptotaenia japonica, is no good for rearing European machaon, larvae all die on it. I am doing several other crosses as well, and it's just the beginning of the season here now, so it's going to be another interesting year. Adam.
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felixb
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Post by felixb on Apr 26, 2012 1:41:41 GMT -8
This is what I've done so far Machaon gorganus male from Ukraine paired with dehaanii dehaanii female from Japan Maackii maackii male with dehaanii dehaanii maackii maacki male with machaon gorganus machaon gorganus male with polyxenes stabilis Attachments:
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felixb
Junior Member
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Post by felixb on May 28, 2012 23:01:58 GMT -8
Hybrid male. Papilio maackii maackii “Japan “ x Papilio machaon gorganus “Ukraine “ Attachments:
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Post by radusho on May 30, 2012 7:17:22 GMT -8
succesful handpairing between Coenonympha tullia female and Coenonympha pamphilus male. Now I have a few fertilized eggs. ;D Attachments:
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felixb
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Post by felixb on May 31, 2012 22:07:52 GMT -8
Thanks for your pic radusho.let us know how the offspring will look like! here's another picture of a freshly hatched hybrid male.this time maackii maackii x dehaanii dehaanii. Attachments:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 23:26:06 GMT -8
that is spectacular.
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Post by nathanjboob on Jun 7, 2012 23:17:47 GMT -8
I've fooled around with some hybrid Saturnids over the last few years. The attached photo is of a male, A. dubernardi x A luna that I reared last year on White pine. I did get some females as well. They were small and carried no ovae. Other pairings that produced hybrid progeny were C. regalis x C. splendens, A. zephyria x A. cecrops p. and H. cecropia x H. columbia. The Citheronia and Automeris pairings produced fully fertile hybrid offspring and in both cases the hybrid lines were continued for another generation or two. Attachments:
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Post by nathanjboob on Jun 7, 2012 23:21:51 GMT -8
Here is a photo of the larva A. dubernardi x A luna. I forgot to mention that all the hybrid pairings were hand paired. Attachments:
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felixb
Junior Member
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Post by felixb on Jun 26, 2012 12:23:46 GMT -8
Female hybrid Papilio machaon gorganus “Ukraine“ x Papilio polyxenes stabilis “Costa Rica“ Attachments:
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felixb
Junior Member
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Post by felixb on Aug 27, 2013 7:25:30 GMT -8
Hi Guys Even I did not reach al Goals I had for this year,I want to Show some Pictures of my breedings. I bred some F2 Hybrids of Papilio machaon melitensis x Papilio polyxenes asterius this year.Interesting how differently F2 is coming out. here you see 3 males.The male on Top and the male on the left side are Brothers.I put a pure machaon from slowakai at the bottom to give some comparisson.You can see,the Hybrid machaon is a bit darker. This Picture Shows a machaon Type F2 female ,also very dark. This Pictures Shows a polyxenes morph female of the F2 This Picture Shows a dark machaon type F2 male. Also other specimen hatched,looking like normal machaon and normal polyxenes.I may upload some more Pictures soon. best regards
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Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 27, 2013 7:53:34 GMT -8
The F1 machaon x polyxenes are all dark like polyxenes, as the dark gene is dominant. It is only in the F2 generation and beyond where you will get both machaon-like and polyxenes-like specimens.
It is interesting to see the intermediates in Felix's F2 cross.
Adam.
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Post by suzuki on Aug 27, 2013 7:53:55 GMT -8
Spectacular,well done.
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Post by smallcopper on Aug 27, 2013 8:16:17 GMT -8
succesful handpairing between Coenonympha tullia female and Coenonympha pamphilus male. Now I have a few fertilized eggs. ;D Did anything ever hatch from those eggs, Radusho? I'd be fascinated to hear about what happened.
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