felixb
Junior Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by felixb on Aug 27, 2013 8:38:50 GMT -8
Adam you are right.That is congruent with my experience.
So far I did a backcross of a black F2 male with a pure machaon female from slowakia and a backcross of a black F2 female with a pure polyxenes.I also managed to get a pairing between a black F2 male and a F1 female(sibling of the F2´s parents).
F3 didnt work out till now,but I will try on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Aug 27, 2013 9:57:31 GMT -8
Adam you are right.That is congruent with my experience. So far I did a backcross of a black F2 male with a pure machaon female from slowakia and a backcross of a black F2 female with a pure polyxenes.I also managed to get a pairing between a black F2 male and a F1 female(sibling of the F2´s parents). F3 didnt work out till now,but I will try on. You are much more likely to get success with backcrosses where the pure parent is the female crossed with a hybrid male. I have found that hybrid females are much less likely to lay fertile eggs, but crosses of hybrid males often produce fertile offspring with pure line females. I have found the same results with various crosses in the machaon group. Adam. |
|
|
|
Post by irisscientist on Aug 27, 2013 14:31:05 GMT -8
Dear Felix,
Some seriously great work contained within this thread. If however you fancy a real challenge, I can only but suggest the hybridizations between the closely related members of the European Apaturinae (iris, ilia and metis). Following some serious works by Nguyen (1976 and 1979). "Les Apatura: polymorphisme et speciation : lépidoptères Nymphalidae" and "Polymorphismus und Artabgrenzug in der Gattung Apatura (Nymphalidae)", many believe that A.metis and A.ilia are in fact polymorphic versions of the same species? I can confirm that both A.metis and A.ilia certainly share the same wing pheromone compound, but this is also true however of A.iris. It would be interesting to see how easily these (A.metis and A.ilia) species actually interbreed and produce viable offspring? Lastly however, it is extremely important to note that the natural captive breeding of any members of the Apaturinae has never been achieved and that recently acquired data has also confirmed that infertility of these species is not simply necessarily due to incompatibility. Recent in-vitro labelling experiments (therefore unknown to Nguyen in 1979) would highly suggest that the males of these species need to ingest various essential factors in order to produce viable progeny. Are you really up for such an immense challenge?
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by jonathan on Aug 27, 2013 21:57:24 GMT -8
Hi Mark,
That sounds like a complex challenge, but interesting.
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Aug 28, 2013 0:25:31 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by rayrard on Aug 29, 2013 18:54:31 GMT -8
anyone see this hybrid of Limenitis? It was posted on Bugguide sometime ago and is certainly the most spectacular Admiral/Viceroy hybrid I've seen Hybrid Limenitis |
|
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Aug 29, 2013 23:21:32 GMT -8
Impressive indeed !
|
|
pips
Junior Member
Posts: 44
|
Post by pips on Aug 31, 2013 2:07:37 GMT -8
This is a couple of Parnassius nomion koiwayae x Parnassius apollo wiskotti. Look at the greater size compared to a normal nomion nomius couple. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by bugboys3 on Sept 2, 2013 5:47:29 GMT -8
Rayrard,
That hybrid Limenitis is spectacular!
|
|
|
|
Post by multicaudata on Sept 14, 2013 21:12:27 GMT -8
I've only managed to hand-pair butterflies once in my life, and that was a male P. rutulus with a female P. zelicaon -- predictably, they were incompatible, and the zelicaon dramatically extruded her entire genital tract immediately after mating!
I do, however, have a beautiful "A1" male hybrid P. eurymedon X rutulus collected in the wild in Berkeley, CA, intermediate in every characteristic, as well as a suspected but much less clean-cut example of the same hybrid from Oakland. Will post photos if I ever have time to figure out how.
I do think that Papilio(Pterourus) is just about your best chance of getting natural hybrids here in the Western US (and presumably also in the East where you've got canadensis, glaucus, appalachiensis, and who knows how many other as-yet-undescribed species co-occuring). Just look closely at ALL the tiger swallowtails in areas where 2 or more species fly together -- and let me know if you get a P. rutulus X multicaudata hybrid!
|
|
|
|
Post by sanphilep on Sept 16, 2013 4:35:38 GMT -8
Dear all I have also tried hybrids between machaon melitensis and p.polyxenes asterias and specimens are more like polyxenes than machaon. One of these is intermediate and quite interesting. |
|
felixb
Junior Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by felixb on Mar 29, 2014 3:38:00 GMT -8
Hi all, new season starts with zelicaon male x hippocrates female. best regards Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 29, 2014 11:09:56 GMT -8
You are slow ;-)
I already have many pupae of brevicauda x machaon gorganus. It will be interesting to see what happens this time, as last time all the male pupae emerged quite soon, but all the female pupae went into diapause.
Adam.
|
|
felixb
Junior Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by felixb on Mar 29, 2014 11:14:08 GMT -8
haha Adam  weather is just getting warm here in Germany! I could not start earlier. please post some Pictures of the hybrids if they emerge. best regards |
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 29, 2014 11:14:12 GMT -8
I should add that I let them mate naturally, in late February when it was not so hot (40C outside today) and the larvae pupated about a week or so ago.
I also managed to rear pure brevicauda through to pupa for the first time, again natural mating and the females laid happily on fennel. Last year I was too late starting them and the 5th instar larvae died of the heat.
Adam.
|
|
