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Post by mikelock34 on May 13, 2013 13:22:16 GMT -8
Damn right! Good job Dunc. I will have your "Get Out Of Hell Free" card in the mail by Tuesday.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 19, 2013 13:07:38 GMT -8
Will that card be in Hebrew? Is it like American Express? "Don't leave Earth without it!"
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Post by multicaudata on Sept 18, 2013 19:16:46 GMT -8
Clark, Young though I am, I TOTALLY AGREE with you on the current ghastly Nymphalidae situation! I hate changes like this. I think groups as different as satyrs, heliconians, and nymphalines should be separate families, just as the many very similar but slightly differing groups of songbirds are considered to be different families. No birder would agree that everything from the warblers through the end of the book should all be "Fringillidae", so why should all these groups of butterflies (which seem much more different from each other than, for example, warblers and sparrows!) be lumped into one family? Zacatak, Love this! "(Revelation 4:11) “You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created."  I thought I was the only Christian on here... |
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Post by Zacatak on Sept 19, 2013 19:20:43 GMT -8
nice to meet you i also love this scripture, (Hebrews 3:4) Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God. nature has allot of detail in the fine print if you really think about it. everything supports something and has its own purpose. if what we see from these insects on this forum makes us step back and really think nature is really beautiful, than surely like an artist creates a beautiful painting with allot of thought put into it; than surely it can't of happen by some mere mistake or chance. for something to work and have a purpose, than much thought is needed to make that idea possible. |
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Post by exoticleps on Sept 20, 2013 10:51:36 GMT -8
This seems to have gone way off topic, but it made me think of a few things that I rarely share. Clarks question is a good one- where do we come from? and before anyone goes labeling, I can say Im not sided with evolution or creation, maybe on the fence but I guess more an atheist. Still I think there is a lot science cannot and probably will not ever know about humans, the earth or the universe. Science is used to explain things away, and I like science and knowing why things are the way they are. But I have had 2 experiences in my life that i'll never be able to comprehend or justify with science. One was what they call "near death experience" and the other was witnessing a full bodied apparition of a women. even with both of these events Id still consider myself a skeptic, but for those that try to explain these things scientifically have never actually personally experienced them. Its claimed that Near death is nothing more than the brain mis-firing and "ghosts" are also just a play on the brain, but you will not ever convince someone who has actually been there of that THEORY. I still call myself a skeptic because I cannot prove one way or the other without a doubt, but then neither can anyone else trying to logically explain them either that wasn't there. NOBODY knows just how the human brain really works, so it is a theory not fact. Just as NOBODY saw god, or has proof of him otherwise we'd all believe.
All's I'm saying is that there is ALOT out there we don't know the answers to, and things we don't know about at all, at least at present or most likely ever.
The reason you extreme evo guys and bible guys fight on it so much is that your both trying to prove to one another something that you both don't have the end-all proof to. both sides is a faith as far as Im concerned. you either have it or you don't. Everything in the bible is open for human interpretation as is most things science. Even scientists argue on many theories and findings, even when they claim to have "proof" both sides claim to have proof of why they are right and the other is wrong??? nonetheless very entertaining
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Post by Zacatak on Sept 20, 2013 15:00:32 GMT -8
i agree nobody can have a certain answer. but say everything happened by evolution or chance, if everything appeared by their own introduction into life than there wouldn't be a balance to it all, everything would be fighting for a chance to survive and that wouldn't explain the close relationships we see animals and plants have in nature itself. especially if the theory of evolution is one to dominate the other in order to survive lol. i remember seeing a documentary by Sir David Attenborough on flowers, and there was this certain flower that could only be pollinated by a single insect...it was a bee. but this flower would not give its pollen to anything that visited it. it took a certain type of bee to produce a high pitch vibration by the beat of its wings. that made the flower shoot out its pollen, hence the flower was able to be pollinated by that bee. that totally astounded me! i was amazed that one needed the other in order to survive, and that really made me believe in a creator. that surely shows a level of design. because if one thing was missing or unbalanced or imperfect than it would fail. what if we lost the simple honey bee...it would be fatal to life on this earth, flowers would die... that shows a intended plan, some kind of design to make that cycle work, and surely couldn't be the work of something that evolved by chance..
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Post by smallcopper on Sept 22, 2013 11:38:44 GMT -8
I can't quite believe this tired 'debate' (and I use that term in the loosest and most irreverent sense of the word) still has legs. (Gosh, why hasn't the debate evolved, um, wheels instead? Discuss...) Historically we've ascribed what we can't explain to some higher or mystical power. Thankfully, clever problem-solving apes that we are, we're good at finding scientific, peer-reviewed and replicable answers to our questions, and we really don't need to rely on mythical explanations for things we don't understand. Evolution happens. Animal agency exists alongside it. Free will isn't exclusive to mankind. We're really nothing special, just some highly evolved apes that have got a little too clever for our own good, and that of our environment and its cohabitees. But for those who want to push the exclusivity and inherent specialness of mankind ( ooh look at the human eye! It's so incredible it simply must have been designed and not evolved by accident!), I suggest the creationists read 'A metaphysics for freedom' and then we'll have a proper, grown-up debate about the spiritual and logical likelihood of their hypothesis. Using big words, 'cos we're dead clever and evolved like that these days... www.amazon.com/A-Metaphysics-Freedom-Helen-Steward/dp/0199552053Until then, evolution continues to happen apace all around us. Get over it! Saying it's not happening, or that we're not a product of it, doesn't make it any less true, fortunately. |
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Post by exoticleps on Sept 22, 2013 15:22:01 GMT -8
No doubt the human species thinks they are supreme beings, but fact is, humans as a whole are pretty pathetic. If "we" could get our heads out of our butts or our noses out of the clouds it would be quite humbling. For the bible folk- How, if God is so mighty, make such a mistake with humans. In fairness you bible nuts should know I have read the bible (kings James version)--- thats a whole other can of worms there, so many versions and all together different religions all over the world. It might be more believable if there was only ONE version and ONE religion worldwide, This is besides the wording on every page which punches all kinds of holes in this story. I told someone I don't get this book, and I was told that "only true believers and folks that are "saved" will understand what it all means"  I gave it a chance and since the bible itself is really the only way to research the subject, I spent a year and a half studying it. I educated myself on it, and found it to be kind of far fetched. As far as evolution, refer to my previous post. the bible has nothing to back it up physically, at least evo nuts have something of mass to go on, but none of you can seem to agree on any of that either. Your ego's get in the way all the time. Could we just agree that "it is what it is"? |
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Post by mikelock34 on Sept 24, 2013 14:40:52 GMT -8
"At best, mankind is an annoying happenstance upon creation with delusions of grandeur."
Michael Lockwood
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 2:37:03 GMT -8
Could not agree more, our arrogance at times is as startling as our ignorance.
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Post by wingedwishes on Sept 25, 2013 3:36:10 GMT -8
Dunc - That is the best summary I have ever read in this "side" argument.
Both the arrogant and the ignorant can be wrong/right about things on occasion though......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 7:02:08 GMT -8
yes there are things we are VERY good at, I would venture to say that no other living organism in the universe is as good at destroying their home as efficiently and quickly as we can and STILL think that they are something special.
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Post by admin on Sept 26, 2013 15:43:58 GMT -8
How did the DNA evolve from the primordial soup? That's what I want to know. And if RNA is the precursor to DNA, then how did RNA come about from the soup? I want answers and I want them now.
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Post by mikelock34 on Sept 26, 2013 16:53:43 GMT -8
Happenstance.
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Post by exoticleps on Sept 26, 2013 18:00:47 GMT -8
don't hurt yourself trying to figure it out. Anyone claiming to have the right answer is a liar. but happenstance works for me. |
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I gave it a chance and since the bible itself is really the only way to research the subject, I spent a year and a half studying it. I educated myself on it, and found it to be kind of far fetched. As far as evolution, refer to my previous post. the bible has nothing to back it up physically, at least evo nuts have something of mass to go on, but none of you can seem to agree on any of that either. Your ego's get in the way all the time. Could we just agree that "it is what it is"?