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Post by ron on Jun 29, 2017 13:29:19 GMT -8
Hello, I've recently acquired this specimen. Data says : North Korea, Hwangcho Ridge, South Hamgyong Province, 7-28 August 2009. It certainly is a female P. bianor or P. dehaanii, but which one? And which subspecies? Thanks for your help! Ron  |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 30, 2017 1:14:03 GMT -8
It must be dehaanii, as bianor does not reach the Korean peninsula. I have a specimen of bianor supposedly from Liaoning, China, but I suspect the data may be incorrect. Apart from that I haven't heard of true bianor from anywhere northeast of Shandong province, China. Both bianor and dehaanii are sympatric in Shandong, by the way. Hybrids between the two are infertile, and DNA analysis shows they are different species.
As for subspecies, dehaanii from Korea is ssp. dehaanii, the same as Japan.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 30, 2017 1:18:21 GMT -8
Perhaps you are worried that the data is fake, which is always possible for North Korean material, especially if it came from a certain dodgy Chinese dealer who was banned from Insectnet some years ago. I have seen material supposedly from NK which he sold, but it is very difficult to be sure whether they really did come from NK or not.
Adam.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jun 30, 2017 3:54:11 GMT -8
This maybe slightly off topic, I remember reading that in North Korea hunger amongst the peasant is a serious problem and they eat insect as part of there diet.
Those in North Korea who live in the country and farm, most of there crops are taken by the goverment, for the common good. I would assume caterpillars are part of the diet.
I attended a Lep Soc meeting many years ago where various insects were available to taste/eat/consume. Chocolate covered ants, roasted Grass Hoppers and some sort of canned flies. Yeeeuuuuck.
However, when hunger threatens your existence, you will eat whatever you can or must to exist.
Would those conditions in North Korea effect Lepidoptera?
Adam, you reside in SE Asia, are insects part of the diet where you live?
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Post by Paul K on Jun 30, 2017 5:25:27 GMT -8
You will be surprised as most of the insects when properly served taste delicious. While I stay in Thailand I am sure not to miss some dishes.
I can assure they more healthy than Waffle House menu.
Paul
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Post by exoticimports on Jun 30, 2017 5:53:53 GMT -8
Cambodians set up lights behind plastic sheeting with a water base to catch grasshoppers at night. This is not an emergency supplement, but a historic and staple of the diet. And why not? I remember watching on CNN years ago a story about the food crisis in Africa and there are thousands of large locust flying around!
In Thailand you can buy wok fried grasshoppers with soy. They are awesome! In Mexico, choppolinas (sp?) which are hoppers fried with salt and leamon- also awesome!
Insects rightly are a staple in many diets, and I suspect NK eat them as do other Asian countries.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 30, 2017 8:22:36 GMT -8
To answer Leroy, since he addressed it to me, indeed there is a huge range of insect species eaten here. As well as very many species of insects, giant scorpions and tarantulas are also a delicacy (to some).
In Bangkok it is possible to see roadside hawkers selling fried insects, mostly locusts, but a whole range of other species, and interestingly including silkworm pupae. Mind you, I'm not actually sure they are allowed to sell their wares nowadays, as the authorities discourage hawkers now.
Possibly one of the most famous local dishes in this part of Thailand (Chiang Mai) is "Rot Duan", which means "express train", and consists of fried caterpillars of a species of moth that lives in bamboo. They are eaten salted, rather like fried locusts, crickets and other insects. Rot Duan taste rather like french fries.
Locals use fluorescent UV black lights (they are actually dark purple) to catch Belostomatids, with the giant species (Maeng Da) being especially prized when made into a chili paste. Of course the scent of these Hempiteran bugs is very strong indeed.
They also use black lights high on a pole with a normal fluorescent tube just over a large washing bowl of water to catch moths. The moths are attracted by the black light and then fly down into the bowl of water. These are then collected and put in large plastic bags with water in them and shaken vigorously until the scales have all fallen off and then are fried.
Another huge favourite (not of mine!) is "Kai Mot Daeng", red ant eggs, which are pupae of large predatory Oecophylla ants which make nests in trees by weaving leaves together into a ball. Locals use a long bamboo pole with a bucket hanging from just below the tip. They then use the tip to puncture and rip open the bottom of the nest, and all the 'food' falls into the bucket.
There is another species of large ant that is extremely popular, but can only be collected on one or two days a year in May. This is called "Maeng Mun", greasy insect, and only the queens (the males and workers are too small) are collected as they emerge from the underground nest and put into a container, usually a plastic water bottle. Again these are fried, and they are very expensive indeed at markets.
I am sure there are very many other tales of entomophagy in Thailand, but these come to mind straight away.
Adam.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jun 30, 2017 10:09:13 GMT -8
You will be surprised as most of the insects when properly served taste delicious. While I stay in Thailand I am sure not to miss some dishes. I can assure they more healthy than Waffle House menu. Paul The how come when a Cock Roach runs across the floor or a counter top, everybody goes nuts. Should I tell them that Cock Roaches are actually quite tasty. As for me, I will stick with good beef, chicken, pork, and fish. The only invertebrate's I will eat are Shrimp, crab and Lobster. I like Lepidoptera. I just prefer them with Pins stuck in them in a Drawer, not on a plate with a side of Flies. Everything is healthier than the items on the Waffle House menu. They just taste great! If I want to eat healthy, I don't have any idea where that is. |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jun 30, 2017 10:15:23 GMT -8
No offence Adam, but I will stick with the Waffle House. I mentioned to my wife that some people in distant lands eat insects. She said I should start with my collection.
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Post by Paul K on Jun 30, 2017 15:37:42 GMT -8
Mmm...Maeng Mun ants those are my favorites, I had the chance to eat them at Northern Thai Style Restaurant in Chiang Mai.
Unfortunately only once in August ( they must to freeze them ) as Adam said they are collected only once a year, They are of the large size and look more like the wasp.
Paul
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Post by cabintom on Jun 30, 2017 23:12:40 GMT -8
I'm a huge fan of seafood, but I don't quite understand why in the west people are ok with eating shrimp, which consume detritus, and objectively look much stranger (with their multitude of legs, etc.) than most edible insects (esp. locusts and ants/termites), but get queasy at the thought of eating termites. We likely wouldn't eat cockroaches because of their diet, but no one bats an eye at eating shrimp which fulfill an ecologically similar purpose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 4:32:22 GMT -8
It's the same deal with hair. When it's still attached to a head we will play with the hair. We run our fingers through the hair. Let that same hair fall into food and we freak out like it's nuclear waste
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jul 4, 2017 8:10:37 GMT -8
I guess that eating insects is like Cunnilingus. You must develop a taste for it.
If you can get by the smell.
5 will get you 10 Clark deletes this!!!
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Post by admin on Jul 4, 2017 13:59:57 GMT -8
gimme a break
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 5, 2017 6:28:27 GMT -8
Amazing how a simple butterfly identification request can morph into a totally different subject or two.
Adam.
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